One idea is to have niche relays AND create an onboarding experience that throws people into these relays by default.
Discussion
I mean: suppose I like baseball and I dwell in two or three baseball relays. Then I should be able to share something to my baseball fan friends that makes them click a link and be automatically inside these baseball relays as their "global" feed the first time they open the app. Then they can start following people and learning about other relays later.
I like your idea. What if something like this is also done for common knowledge? Something like what was shared by the developers.
One of the great virtues of Twitter, from my point of view, are the networks of shared knowledge: technology, economics, science, political science, etc. Each of them has a particular and common language.
shared knowledge* (not common)
I was thinking in Spanish again đ
I don't get what you mean by shared knowledge. How is Twitter a network of shared knowledge?
In economics, for example. There are a lot of academics that share their work, opinions, give feedback to others, etc. They even recommend each other. Itâs not explicit but is there.
Economics have their own language. You know almost instantly the mental frame or the school of thought through that.
Language seems the natural path to build communities, at least at the beginning
Very good idea.
Yes, I think this is the easiest and most efficient way to assist people to share, and see all the content they want to and then see all the content and content providers within their chosen topic. It is also in one place âglobalâ so people donât have to worry about hunting around here, there and everywhere for chosen content.
This is the way.
I wrote this back in June. I still think this can onboard millions without them even knowing itâs Nostr.
Imagine if the âMobile appâ for the Audubon Society is really just a Nostr client (with some extra stuff) that points to their relay.
nostr:note142lv6f0d900cqmsm8faggzrnqw270vgea88x5vlc8n7av67hmtssrav9za
Yeah, invite codes with pubkeys and relays baked in would be awesome for new users, even on twitter-like clients
Someone has to create a niche relay for that đ€·Also, have you checked activities on communities which are supposed to be topical?
Reddit used to have âVisit random subredditâ which was helpful for discovery
Does this start to move more into the federated Mastodon model? Who runs the niche relays?
Yes, it does, except you're not tied to a single Mastodon server nor they own your identity.
i agree we need to make relays less faceless. for example if you're a Nazi like me you only really need relay.mostr.pub because that's the one that goes to Fedi where all my frens are - but it took me MONTHS on here to figure this out.
instead when you're signing up it should help you find the right relays. it should ask you - do you love Hitler ? if yes then this is the relay for you here. etc.
Wouldnât it be difficult because youâd have bitcoiners join those relays anyway? Theyâd stared taking there and the normie relay will also turn into bitcoin relays.
I should check my autocorrects before hitting send đ
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Relays need tools to defend themselves from unwanted pubkeys and content. There are real ways to do this but we havenât done them yet.
AUTH works well but is the nuclear option. Softening auth via invite codes and access requests would help admins expand their member lists more easily
Itâs not sufficient though, maybe you whitelist a pubkey based on a topic but they only write 5% of the time on that topic
And clients are not good at segregating content, so relays need more powerful tools than just AUTH imo.
It depends on if you want topic based or people based groups, but yeah
There are not enough bitcoiners in the world unfortunately.
There are multiple sub-communities in Nostr already that are living in non-Bitcoin bubbles -- there are some bitcoiners in these communities probably, but they're not talking about Bitcoin all the time there.
Why are we only discussing bitcoiners here? There is a dev âecho chamberâ as well. Be more welcoming to normies. Stop taking about dev stuff.
Alright devs too. Point being is that you canât really know who youâre letting into your relays. Conversation will unfold one way or another.
I donât think we should be focusing on separating out new users via relays.
Instead we should focus on onboarding early adopters with different interests by building tools for their specific use case.
IMO, we missed a huge opportunity with the egirls. Would have been a perfect opportunity for devs to come together and create a censorship resistant OnlyFans for them. This would have brought in an entire new community, along with their customers.
We sure did. And I agree. We already have most of the tools needed for âfriendlierâ experiences. Almost there.
How about more e(nlightened) girls? Raise the frequency?
What e-girls? There is no such a thing as "devs coming together", that will never happen.
Come together.. right now ⊠đ¶
We had an influx of online sex workers for a few weeks. Instead of getting their feedback and creating a censorship resistant version of OnlyFans that they could use, we got 10 more Twitter clones. And they left. I donât give a shit if devs come together or not. But they should open their eyes and see how they can build tools for interested communities of users. This is another way to #grownostr beyond bitcoiners.
The idea is not to "separate" users, read my followup note.
if i'm a Nazi and you're a Jew i don't want to be on your relay any more than you want me to be on it. you just need to give me tools to find a more suitable relay. i suggest a chatGPT style AI interview when signing up that picks the first 5 relays for you, and then afterwards some kind of algorithm that picks relays for you based on your circle and communities you joined.
also each relay should clearly state whom it is intended to serve, for example "this relay is for pedophiles" ... after all, there are dozens of Fedi instances that are openly dedicated to Pedophiles so why shouldn't there be relays dedicated to it ... as well as Nazis etc ...
people naturally self-segregate they just need tools to know where they actually are. IRL no white person buys property in a black neighborhood because they can SEE the neighborhood is black. on NOSTR you can't see if everybody on your relay is a pedophile or Nazi. people need tools to see these things. as a Nazi Pedophile myself i would love to have such tools to find my frens !
So do we have to make the relays smarter to filter out those niches? Or can we curate this on our (in a more human way) side by hand? Or both đ
The relay should be kept simple enough, if the relay has too many operations it will be the beginning of a review. Content classification can add new Nips, and content guidance and community building should be handed over to the client.
The most important problem now is that the communication between the client and the relay is too slow and loses data, and needs to pull all the data every time. It is not like the traditional server client, which can make the user feel no sense of the network connection and can be used smoothly. If the client and relay can communicate and pull data optimization to seamless connection, it is a huge improvement in user experience. This is probably the most important issue for more ordinary people to use and join.
Why is it slow? It is not, querying a relay for anything is usually absurdly fast.
Why isn't it like the traditional server-client? It definitely is. Servers generally serve the same data over and over to the same clients. twitter.com, for example.
I'm not sure if I'm the only one having these problems. I used all 19 relays for free. It is often encountered that only 4 or 5 relay can be successfully connected, resulting in the local post data is not the most complete, which may be the difference in the data stored by each relay. It will take several restarts to connect more relay successfully.
Every time I open the client, the client will pull all the data from the relay, which causes my 5G traffic data to be consumed very quickly. Traditional servers only need to pull the latest information, but not all information. For example, I consume less data when I use Twitter. In fact, the data of Nostr does not need to consider the modification of historical data, because it cannot be deleted. Can we consider only pulling the latest data each time we obtain data?
If the client is used for a long time, no post will be sent, and the relay network will be disconnected during the use. A reboot is often required.
In the same environment of Wi-Fi and 5G, sometimes there are more and sometimes fewer connected relays. If ordinary users only use a few free relay, posts, comments, zap and other data will be displayed incomplete, which will make users have a sense of anxiety about losing information. This is something traditional apps don't need to consider.
These are all the experience problems I have encountered. I don't know whether it is because of the connection and communication technology of relay. It is hoped that this part of the communication connection problem can be well solved, so that the client can bring better experience to ordinary users.
Each time you open the client, you need to wait for the connection to the relay. The client remains blank. Often, the relay connection fails, and the home page is blank. This is a very confusing problem for ordinary users who are used to traditional apps.
Didnât that mastodon bridge guy say more content from nostr goes into fedi then out to Nostr?
Could mastodonâs metrics be slightly skewed because of this?
This is what we need.
Personal relays: It only stores my posts, but everyone can see my posts by joining the relay.
Household/town relays; if I know you in person, we have our private relay
Community relays; if we like the same thing, we share a relay, maybe we even pay for it.
Public relays; Gossipstations
Freedom ain't free. If you want to keep the comms up you have to host it and pay for it. Free gets you noticed, but the people who pay are here to stay.
Is there a way to teach nostr clients to prioritize loading specific relays? And then yeah, it'd be nice to see what relays people are on publicly so you can get max connectivity.
I hate the niche relay idea, what if the largest relay for a particular niche decides they don't like you? Relays should be generic and interchangeable.
niche relays (& clients maybe) that mimic things normies are already interested in? Alternative twitch space, reddit space, instagram space? The twitter space is already kind of done, except for the diversity of topics.
I liked the recipy nostr you shared earlier. Things often grow from monopolizing small communities for a start. Just like facebook first was a local harvard thing.
I sense this is a client GUI question. If someone want to begin doing nich relays they also need to built a client adapted for that environment. Atm. most client deal with all relays as if they where general relays.
A nich relay world would cooperate better with clients that has gui for specifying where you do your notes posting. Say that you where given tabs that post to different relays. So my "Food tab" posts to food niche relays, and "Photography" post to Photo niche relays.