I think this is how vaccines have been studied.
Discussion
This is inaccurate. The Pfizer Covid vaccines underwent a fairly large double blind placebo controlled trial. The original polio vaccine was a massive trial where the control group got saline and got sick/died and the vaccinated group did not.
The irony of this comment is that the studies of vaccine injury are always retrospectives. There are no double blind placebo controlled studies that the antivaxers can use to prove injury or lack of effectiveness or secret 5g brain control or whatever.
Oh interesting I just looked into it, the study was only 6 months before blinds were removed. Which chatgpt tells me is common of vaccines.
What's your view nostr:nprofile1qqstnem9g6aqv3tw6vqaneftcj06frns56lj9q470gdww228vysz8hqpzdmhxue69uhkzmr8duh82arcduhx7mn9qy2hwumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcam28zl, could there be an argument that the long term safety or effects of something can really only be inferred by retrospective since there's no long term double blind test to compare against?
1. Have you actually look at the covid trial?
2. If you are referring to the Salk vaccine trial, this was an efficacy trial, not a safety trial. The only trials for any vaccine i have found with a real placebo (i've spent literally dozens of hours on this) have explicitly been efficacy, none were safety trials. I keep asking for someone to find one for me with no luck so far.
Why would they run separate trials for safety and efficacy when the same trial can test both? A vaccine that is effective at preventing a disease by rendering the patient dead is of no use. Likewise an injection of something that is completely safe but offers no protection from a disease is a waste of time. Testing for safety and effectiveness is how vaccine studies are designed.
Now there are always ethical questions with any double blind placebo test. A child injected with a dangerous vaccine dies and everyone loses their mind…likewise the placebo child dies of polio but the neighbors kid gets the safe effective test and lives. Sometimes to advance you have to make some hard choices.
So it’s better to just go ahead and force it on everyone instead ?
Without ever really knowing?
I don’t agree with forcing anything on anyone. I’m simply pointing out that the studies are double blind placebo whereas the evidence for harm comes from retrospective analysis of alleged harm.
Again, there is no double blind placebo controlled safety trial. You can’t just say “they can do both at once” an ignore the fact that they simply didn’t do that.
My point was there are no specific safety trials because they measure effectiveness and safety concurrently. How would a safety specific trial differ from the current standard?
Have you actually not looked at the trials? They explicitly separate them and are required to for pre approval trials. The details of each can be found in all of the package inserts.
Yes. Here is the package insert for Pfizer https://www.fda.gov/media/151707/download the safety data is on pages 6-21. It’s all the same trials they just separate the data because efficacy and safety are concerned with different data points.
Later package inserts got updated safety data once they learned about further risks for specific populations.
I don’t know why they choose to do them separately, but they literally do. None of the efficacy trials test or look for any of the problems that people are concerned with. The record “redness at the site” and “sore arm.” Barely a handful of localized and low risk concerns. Why don’t you ask the manufacturers why they refuse to do a real safety trial?
And on your point that retrospectives are the only evidence against, you’re right, which is why for *decades* they have demanded a real placebo controlled safety trial. Broad retrospectives cannot prove or disprove anything, they are useful to decide whether something warrants much more serious scientific investigation. Which is exactly the point. The hundreds of mothers who walked into the pediatrician with a perfectly normal, loving child and had a child that reversed their potty training, stopped reaching up for hugs, and literally “turned off” within 24-48 hours of their visit are demanding the science be done. Yet the very institutions that should be required refuse to do so, and have co-opted th regulatory agencies so horribly that they bought themselves permanent immunity from any and all consequence relate to this “perfectly safe” product that they will not do a serious clinical safety trial for.
I’m sorry but tha just smells like bullshit from 50 different directions. And we went through this exact same thing for decades with the tobacco industry. They have scientific paper after scientific paper and retrospective studies upon studies showing how safe it was and that there was no way it caused cancer. Yet here we are.
I start looking when there’s a yellow flag. But when I spend dozens of hours and every single corner I think I’m about to find this “excellent science” I run into a dead end and an excuse… I’d have to be an idiot to take them at their word.