Cuz monero is fucking trash. Money tends to one. Monero took trade offs that made it untenable to be a money, instead it decided privacy and p2p was all that matters. Which it doesn't. There's a hierarchy of needs when it comes to money p2p and privacy being top aint it.
Discussion
privacy is not a top need? We will see when CBDC will be here
Dude the vast majority of currency is ALREADY DIGITAL AND UNDER SURVEILLANCE. A CBDC make not much difference only in relative terms of ability to coordinate more of the economy and have direct liquidity injections.
Seems you don't understand how it works, do you really think the government will let Bitcoin become mass adopted against their own currency the dollar or their own interest? Do you really think Bitcoin is a threat against the banking system? Please face the reality, the mining is centralized by big companies, it will be so easy to enforce them the OFAC blacklist, the development is pretty controlled by Blockstream (backed by bankers) which is pushing the LN and other things made by them... of course no Bitcoin is not a threat against them, it's not about money, it's about control, why are they (bankers) pumping Bitcoin to the moon and making ETF ? Do you think BlackRock will go against the government? People thinking Bitcoin can protect them from the government are very stupid, with CBDC, it will be so easy to control people's money, linked to social score, it will be like in China, and guess what? Bitcoin was banned in China, miners ran out. It will be so easy to control miners in USA and EU with this system. I don't know if they will go against Bitcoin at some point, but one thing is sure, they will never let Bitcoin out of their control, Bitcoin will probably become an extension of the banking system, heavy integrated and regulated, you and I will just cry. Sure it will take time, many years probably, Bitcoin will eventually go the moon, at the end you will have a "digital gold" worth maybe millions, regulated as hell, you will be unable to send or receive without KYC and heavy taxed because they do what they want just cry if they know your wallet you are fucked... and it will be very difficult to be anonymous maybe impossible because Bitcoin is transparent, yes you can dream of Bitcoin become the world reserve currency and it will probably be, but we will loose everything in parallel.
Everything you just said is literally IRRELEVANT to bitcoin. None of which is a problem. There will ALWAYS be a miner somewhere willing to mine my TXs at any amount of fees exceeding the going rate in the mempool. You are literally only thinking about 1st irser effects and IGNORING all of which would ouccur if the scenario you have put forth would have manifested.
There will always be a market price for clearing any TX of ANY type irrespective of any government decree of legislation. You CANNOT simultaneously believe that bitcoin will pump to the moon (with government help) and also believe at the same time that individuals holding bitcoin will become net wealthier and become a greater and greater portion of the individuals that have influences in the socail strata will sit ideally by and do NOTHING.
FFS, think out longer than just first order effects for Christ's sakes. People's thoughts like yours that dont even take into consideration any other effects than that of negative externalities operating in a fucking vaccum without any input from other sources make my fucking brain hurt.
Heres LITERALLY the scenario in which bitcoin is co-opted like you believe would occur to due banks being involved.
Listen to the criticism of the article and the rebuttal of guy at the end.
Not only bankers, add politicians, 3 letters agency and some corporations like ISP for example. What we generally called the system
Says the coin pushing towards centralized L2s and custodians. Please.
The origins of Bitcoin all stemmed from cypherpunks pushing privacy as a top priority. Are you ignorant, in denial, or lying?
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Again PRIVACY IS NOT THE ONLY ATTRIBUTE THAT MATTERS FOR MONEY. its a MULTIFACETED endeavor. An unstoppable, uncensorable money doesn't require ABSOLUTE PRIVACY.
Yes, but it is one of the most crucial aspects and you are greatly downplaying it's importance.
It can't be uncensorable without privacy.
Great no one could stop you from sending your transaction. Now goons with guns are kidnapping you or throwing you in a cage because you did or worse.
Miners can even censor and target your individual transactions on Bitcoin. Wouldn't be possible to do any of that if it was private.
You privacy shills are as bad as bcash and BSVers praising satoshi with praising cypherpunks as the end all be all of the way to do things. Arrogant of you to believe you can dictate to OTHERS how they SHOULD TRANSACT instead of letting each individual choose amongst themselves how to conduct business.
You surveillance chain shills are the ones who made a cult out of his first creation not us. You have more in common with transparent chain Bcashers and BSVers than we do.
Arrogant of you to label me things and conflate me stating facts as me dictating anything. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. Do whatever you want.
Which i shall do, none of which you spouted were facts. All you spouted was subjective evaluation.
Ok thanks for telling me. I was never stopping you despite the feigned outraged pearl-clutching that Monerobros are oppressing you for disagreeing with you on Nostr. You were the one who started calling people shills and giving opinions without any argument or facts not me.
Fact #1: Miners can individually target and censor transactions on transparent blockchains. Figured with two KYC'd mining pools that control payouts and having over 51% hashrate it would be an even more obvious attack vector.
Fact #2: Censorship resistance without privacy means shit if criminals or state goons can knock on your doors and kidnap, torture, or kill you. Glad you are the 0.001% of people using Bitcoin who can stay kind of psuedonymous and/or wouldn't fold under duress on you or your family.
Privacy IS NOT A PROPERTY of money. Never has been. Privacy is and has always been part of identity and exchange.
Property of money is as follows
Scarcity
Durability
Acceptability
Portability
Divisiblity
Fungiblity
Immutablity
I dont see privacy being in there anywhere. That IS facts.
The real world doesn't care about your theoretical list of perfect money. That's why people choose to use fiat, USDT, and even other shitcoins over Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not private so it's not fungible (AKA not uniform, AKA not indistinguishable from other Bitcoin).
Bitcoin is not widely accepted either vs fiat.
By your own definition it wouldn't be money.
Oh no normies wont accept my bitcoin, bitcoin has failed. KINDLY GFY.
So acceptability is now not a property of money?...Wtf?
You're all over the place man.
You're now literally arguing against your own criteria for money THAT YOU BROUGHT UP. You are not a serious person and no one should take your seriously.
You're point bring normies won't except my bitcoin. Why would i try to spend it with them? Dumb. I wouldn't. They don't even know anything about it. I stick to spending it to those that know it's value.
Do normies not use money?...if anything normies using it is necessary if you want to call it money
Money is the most saleable good. A function of it's acceptability that is even in your own criteria. If you said Bitcoin was a MoE ok that would be true, but that's not what you said. You said it was money. It's clearly not.
Nonsense argument. It's only money IF EVERYONE USES IT. Does everyone use bolivars? Pesos? Yen?
Does everyone use dollar or euro? No
Does everyone use Bitcoin ? No
Does everyone use Gold or Silver ? No
Do you know what is money ? Everything can be a money, historically, for centuries it was gold and silver, but at some places, like in Africa, shells was used at money, even beers, even cigarettes in prisons or in the army years ago...
Where did I say "everyone"? Don't add words that I didn't say.
I said *the most*.
Now your definition has turned arbitrary. So if any amount of people use something for exchange it is now money? If that is your definition you are saying Monero is money along with any shitcoin you don't like.
You are arrogant, it's sad how you talk about the average people. The value of Bitcoin or anything else is what you and the other person you deal with agree. Who know the value of Bitcoin ? You ? Me ? Market ? It's very subjective, if Bitcoin do x10 we will agree on that price, if Bitcoin loose 99% of it's actual price, we will agree too. Maybe in 10 years no one will want Bitcoin, maybe all the world will use Bitcoin, that's life, we will see. Please, don't make Bitcoin a fucking religion of arrogant moon boys thinking they know everything about the world 😉
Bitcoin have no fungibility. Because it's not private, each Bitcoin is different, some of them are... you know... "tainted" or "dirty". By the way, theses dirty coins have a lower acceptability (send a dirty coin to Binance and you will see). By your own criteria, Bitcoin is not a money 😂
Oh no a KYC exchange wont accept " tainted" bitcoin GFY.
The person which had send the tainted Bitcoin is fucked, not me. The vast majority of people having Bitcoin is for money and nothing else, the vast majority of people having Bitcoin is linked by KYC. It's possible to remain anonymous with Bitcoin but it's very difficult for the average person and it will be worse over time. Monero is not the king of DarkNet by accident.
"This list I compiled myself IS facts"
Money has never, ever come attached with a history of who owned it from the beginning of time. "Privacy" in this sense was so inherent in the medium of exchange that it was taken for granted. Why would you deliberately engrave a coin with it's ownership history? Well in the realm of digital money, we have the opposite problem: we have to deliberately *not* do this. This is a new problem emergent as a result of the properties of a new medium, a problem that was so impossible to have in the physical medium that nobody ever thought about how fundamental memorylessness is to money. And some people, seeing that work must be done to make our digital money work as much like physical money as possible, say it doesn't matter. Do they do it from a position of good faith? No. They do it either from a position of arrogant ignorance, hubris, or they do it with the goal of protecting their financial position.
Memorylessness, historylessness, temporal atomicity, this property absolutely is a fundamental, indispensible property of money. Besides being a necessary trait to ensure the well understood property of fungibility, it is important in it's own right.
He is now arguing against his own list. He says acceptability no longer matters lmao. Must be nice to be able to switch criteria when it becomes inconvenient
We never dictate you or others how you should transact, we are saying there is big risk if there is no privacy. It's like using cash or credit card, if it's private it's impossible to censor but if it's not private the censorship is now possible, and if you believe the lack of privacy is not a real problem, you are doing a major mistake.
Even this chart isn’t complete in considering monetary properties, but you are absolutely right that privacy is but one consideration and the Monerobros insistence that it was/is the pinnacle property left them shortsighted to everything else.
#Bitcoin has far better privacy than fiat today, and when CBDCs arrive and it's the only viable monetary alternative and further privacy enhancements come to Bitcoin, they will see the error in their thinking. 
GEE WIZ! A RANDOM JPEG THEN IT MUST BE TRUE!
Bitcoin fungible. Lol. Good joke.
The level of discourse we’ve come to expect from Monerobros.
He is right, Bitcoin is not fungible, send BTC from a suspected wallet to Binance and you will see, your account will be frozen, matter of time to be implemented into Bitcoin L1, 2, 3...
BTC has zero privacy. It's a transparent public blockchain. At least with Paypal the general public can't see your transactions.
I hope you are new to Bitcoin because if you still don't grok this yet you never will
Here is a chart for you: https://moneroj.net/dread_subscribers/ Why are the black markets more interested in using Monero as money if Bitcoin is so great?
He won't ever get it because it's against his interest to get it.
His obsession is probably with white market adoption (permissioned markets). Not only is it a contradiction against the whole point of Bitcoin, but Bitcoin isn't even relevant in that realm. Fiat is king there.
This might blow your mind but money has more uses than buying drugs and fake IDs…
Funny, 10 years ago, it's what we said about Bitcoin 🙂
> noooooo it... it is a criminal coin okay??? I don't buy drugs!!!
This is cope, you just shared a chart that according to it Bitcoin is top tier "money", I am just asking why did this money not succeed in its original economy?
