Discussion
"The motives which lead men to do injury and commit wrong actions are depravity and incontinence. For if men have one or more vices, it is in that which makes him vicious that he shows himself unjust"
"the licentious in regard to bodily pleasures... Similarly, each of the rest of mankind is unjust in regard to his special weakness."
I suppose this is why sexual harrassment, deepfake porn, flashing, etc. tends to strike such terror in the hearts of sane women.
People will tend to break moral or criminal laws in accordance with their vices and such men have exposed their particular vice by breaking a rule of some sort, so we are inclined to expect worse from them in the same direction.
This is the origin of "ick" or "creepiness", I suppose.
"Thus all the actions of men must necessarily be referred to seven causes: chance, nature, compulsion, habit, reason, anger, and desire."
"All that men do voluntarily will be either that which is or seems good, or that which is or seems pleasant."
-- Aristotle, "The Rhetoric"
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I suppose he’s never had to clean his own toilet?
Voluntarily you mean?
Are there people who are forced to clean their own toilets?
From necessity
There is only voluntary or involuntary.
Necessity is involuntary i guess
It is not an objective measure.
We can refuse to do necessary things.
That's not the point. Aristotle said men do something they think is good or pleasant. It's good to clean your toilet, but it comes from necessity not pleasure.
Right?
"For I reckon among good things the removal of that which is evil or seems evil, or the exchange of a greater evil for a less, because these two things are in a way desirable; in like manner, I reckon among pleasant things the removal of that which is or appears painful, and the exchange of a greater pain for a less."
Cleaning the toilet improves sanitation, so it is a labor exchange of the bad for the less-bad.
Yes, we are in agreement.
For explaining the actions of people, I much prefer a line from some show (don't ask I can't remember). The line goes something like: "Whenever you see someone running, you must ask yourself, are they running too something or away from something? The answer is always both to some extent."
Through my experiences, I take it to mean that sometimes people carry out feral actions because they are running from some inner demon as opposed to running towards a future they desire. I guess when put like that it could be called compulsion or nature, but perhaps with some deep thoughts about their behaviours or a higher goal to run towards, people might become less inclined to behave in a feral manner.
Yes, a vice needn't permanent. There is always the possibility of reform.