Nostr Web Client

nostr:nevent1qqstmp82wsf2eshydzuxzz80zjwkw3z47n5zey5p5swpvatm9v2np2gpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyzs8ltjxrfhup7axzmy0phn6kfhfmt8p7utqdzkxkwaz25nas00eyqcyqqqqqqgd2f45a

🚨🚨 shitcoiner alert! 🚨🚨

(forgot to turn on orbot & connect to my relay) this one's a keeper!

mrclownworld 2y ago

In my head, Bitcoin is the optimal reserve asset (store of value money), and every thing else, from LN to ETFs to XMR to fiat, is a L2 scaling solution with different trade-offs.

that's a nice way to put it. in the end the market will decide

bitcoiner7 nym 2y ago

I agree

And as a store of value, digital gold, I think Bitcoin clearly wins

As a payment system, like to buy a coffee, and have privacy and speed and minimal cost, I think it is yet to be seen, which solution, or solutions, will turn out to be most adopted

We will see

right and so maybe, in the interest of advancing freedom as quickly as possible, we consider focusing energy on interoperability with currently viable payment rails rather than uber complex L2s

🤷🏻‍♂️ #asknostr

_0x 2y ago

Arguably those complex L2 are here because the payment rails don’t want us to connect. I’ll write a blog post about it.

Papa Figos 2y ago

This is how I see it as well.

_0x 2y ago

I gave away a little bitcoin to a friend and asked her to install phoenix.

She’s not technical but remote debugging didn’t get me closer to figure why it’s not possible to send her a lightning transaction.

I didn’t want to take chances and sent her wrapped BTC on Solana. I think it’s okay there until we meet again.

And frankly it’s like an ETF but better.

and phoenix may be the best solution rn. it's my favorite lightning app. but yeah it's not easy enough for normies and the channel opening fees dont jive with someone used to venmo. maybe if you can explain that they are 'buying security' 🤔

_0x 2y ago

You need to have Bitcoin already then. No tool for onboarding then. And since I setup my Phoenix a year ago I also didn’t even remember that I paid something. Maybe it would have been enough to send her a normal Bitcoin transaction and the opening fee would have been deducted? Not sure if the app told her that. When I asked for her address she sent me the node id from the settings screen at first.

Papa Figos 2y ago

I've used Phoenix for years and have got a channel with capacity for thousands of USD in sats.

Not true for new friends and acquaintances I onboard.

With the fees as they are in BTC now, and with zero inbound liquidity in their cases, using Phoenix is suicidal.

Instead, I onboard them to #monero and recommend that after they have about $500 in it (after a period of DCA), they convert it to Bitcoin cold storage.

It's practical and seems to work well.

this is the way? part of me doesn't like to admit it. i want to be a maxi, but i am a pragmatist

Papa Figos 2y ago

I am pragmatic. For me it's just tools, not a football club or a religion.

Bitcoin works better for savings, Monero works better as private anonymous digital cash, Bitcoin Lightning to a lesser extent and with smaller amounts works very well too (and UI tends to be prettier), except for the aforementioned liquidity bootstrapping issues.

We've got all these tools. In the end, more options more freedom.

I'm glad for #bitcoin and I'm glad for #monero - having both makes my life better & freer in the financial realm.

How do you convert monero to btc cold storage?

atomic swap

Do you have a tutorial about that? search isn't showing much

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

unstoppableswap.net has a simple GUI you might like

A lot of the community is excited for SeraiDEX. Should be out sometime this year as well:

serai.exchange

maybe i'll put something together, but still figuring it out for myself. i've been using cake wallet. it's a nice app, but missing just a few features that would make it great, imo

Which one? There appear to be 2 on the Google play store

idk. i dl the apk using obtanium

start here cakewallet.com

https://bounties.monero.social/posts/94/20-991m-nostr-client-for-monero

Unstoppable swap is unidirectional, I would like to use monero with maxis, while still maintaining my SOV in bitcoin. I don't see adoption of monero for zaps here happening anytime soon, so paying for something like dvm usage isn't going to work.

You see my predicament? I used to stack about 50/50 monero and bitcoin, however if you compare them as a SOV, bitcoin way outperforms. I like to think of bitcoin how the boomers think of their homes. I like to think of monero how maxis think of lightning and layer2, but the ecosystem just isn't there. I can't go buy beef or lamb for XMR, so I started a farm myself to do it.

Maybe I'm wrong because I've been out of the monero loop for a while.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Yes, I hear you, it is unidirectional unfortunately. Gotta wait for DEXs like Haveno or Serai. You can use something like Trocador in the meanwhile. That's how I do it and don't have any problems swapping in or out of any crypto and pay next to nothing. I think it would be more economically rational to accept most crypto as payment and convert them all to Bitcoin (or whatever) and you could still be Bitcoin-only.

Outside of DNMs, Monero is definitely more niche atm. Do you know about Monerica and MoneroMarket? There is also XMRBazaar. Not out yet, but should be soon.

monerica.com

moneromarket.io

As for nostr zaps for Monero, looks like AnarkioCrypto is going to start working on the bounty for it sometime next month.

Bitcoin as a SoV does hold true so far so understand the pragmatism for using it as a long term savings. But performance highly dependent on when the Monero was acquired. Holding Monero short to medium term (weeks to months and even years) could go either way. Both are volatile on those scales. For example, if you held Monero from start of 2021 until now you would be pretty much even if you had held Bitcoin instead. All of 2022 Monero more than doubled Bitcoins performance. Monero seems to generally do better during bear markets. Shouldn't be a concern on shorter time scales especially if one is just using modest amounts as cash imo.

Humble recommendation. You say you started a farm to sell meat for Monero? Get in contact with Doug Tuman to get on Gratuitas! @DouglasTuman on Twitter, podcast host of MoneroTalk/Monerotopia. You'll have a wider reach. There are a few vendors there already that are Bitcoin/Monero people (Beisnerd sells maple syrup, and AUPA bar duo sells pemmican bars). I buy from Gratuitas all the time.

gratuitas.org

I'll try to get in touch with them to discuss the farm when the winter let's up, this harsh weather has been fucking with my anxiety.

But I don't think it's prudent to try to use when you aquired an asset to prove it's SOV capability and talk about weeks and month time frame at the same time. SOV is not something people care about on a 5 year time frame, 30 years to an entire generation and beyond is what SOV means. I know bitcoin hasn't been around for multiple decades so that is yet to be proven, but what you were talking about would be how you discuss an investment, not a SOV.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

No kidding this winter weather has been brutal. But you really should get in touch with Gratuitas when you can. You are exactly the type of vendor they would love to have. Decentralized producers from all around. Seems like a perfect match to me at least.

I see. Maybe I have my terms mixed up. All I know is many aspects of Monero are more conducive to a digital cash than Bitcoin. If one doesn't care about the combination of sovereignty, privacy, and very cheap transactions I can see how it might not be as appealing. But your grievances about its relatively smaller adoption and niche uses are fair. I'm not a maxi either though. I think people should just use whatever tools they personally find useful.

_0x 1y ago

How do you prove sources of funds when spending your anonymized bitcoin?

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Don't you dare criticize any aspect of Bitcoin! /s

I was in a similar position a couple years ago. The answers from the zealots were never satisfactory. Was always shot down for asking legitimate questions, but that is very common in this space. Learned better and found others who were more intellectually honest.

Check out "Monero Directory" account follows/followers for more like-minded users: npub1r27775s4thzj5gdz4j0dr8jygvtldnur2qxlzw0muu7z57k83c4qtsyqx6

Don't worry about dogma. Use the best tools for the job.

In terms of private, simple, cheap transactions, Monero is just hands down better than whirlpooling/coinjoining. I would only use Whirlpool if I had no other choice and had to use Bitcoin.

Privacy:

Amounts and addresses are COMPLETELY HIDDEN on Monero (Confidential Transactions + Stealth Addresses). In Whirlpool they are obfuscated, but still visible so strictly more vulnerable to tracing and chain analysis especially thru user mistakes.

Anonymity:

Because your transactions are automatically chosen as decoys for other user transactions that happen, your anon set grows over time passively with no other actions required of you. Every spend from others in a coinjoin potentially reduces your anon set. It is never known if a TXO was spent with Monero, UTXOs don't exist. Coinjoining requires active participation and is only as large as others that are coinjoining with you.

Cheap:

Average cost is less than a cent to transact.

Simplicity:

All this is by default. No special wallets. No tedious and slow process. Just press send.

Censorship resistance:

No centralized coordinators

The only other real contender for privacy is Ecash like Fedimint or Cashu, but they are both custodial and mints can print tokens unbacked by Bitcoin.

There are a lot of people even on Nostr who like to save in Bitcoin, but spend in Monero. I think that is a reasonable position if you are coming from Bitcoin-only territory.

Cake Wallet is great for Monero. Check out Monerujo and Stack Wallet too. If you'r really hardcore about security, check out Anonero (Only available on Tor). Some of the Samourai Wallet guys helped with it's creation if I'm not mistaken: http://anonero5wmhraxqsvzq2ncgptq6gq45qoto6fnkfwughfl4gbt44swad.onion

i dont want to throw shade. that's not my goal here, but there does seem to be an irrational, automatic dismissal of everything not #btc . that's a blind spot

punk 1y ago

This is really interesting. Worth thinking about and looking into.