Most of the ones I know, even the super active ones, either look very unhealthy, are often bloated & gassy, or struggle with undesirable body composition issues (still not happy with abs, etc) & they tend to blame age.

There are quite a few recovering vegans out there who talk about their health completely collapsing after some nunber of years despite all sorts of efforts at supplementation & rather extraordinary lengths to "do things right."

From what I've seen, the difference in outcomes between vegans & vegetarains who cheat once in a while vs those who don't is pretty dramatic. It seems that the human body is pretty amazing & a little cheating can go a long way.

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It’s worth noting that industrial farming practices in the US that lead to the degradation of soil have resulted in vegetables that have very low nutritional value. There’s an inaccuracy in blaming the vegetables themselves.

It’s also worth noting that there’s specific knowledge that goes into being able to have a proper vegan or vegetarian diet and not everyone has that knowledge. There’s a large percentage of people who are “doing it wrong.”

This. 🎯 on both points.

I ate a whole food, plant based diet for almost 3 years and most vegans I know were fat.

What are you basing that on, the low nutritional value bit?

It’s been widely studied. The link between the health of the soil and the resulting nutritional value of whatever grows from that soil.

It has to do with soil as an ecosystem that needs biodiversity. Monoculture and fertilizers and most industrial farming practices significantly reduce the quality of the soil by “killing off” many of the crucial components of the soil ecosystem (many microorganisms for example).

Does that make sense?

I’d like to see a study comparing nutrient density over time or something similar. You can look up nutrient content in vegetables, and that’s also been studied and verified.

Yeah. In this day and age there’s a study for almost anything.

I believe it because it makes complete sense to me and because I’ve studied permaculture and many of my friends have permaculture projects. I have personal experience with eating veggies that come from very healthy soil and I can immediately feel the difference in my body. From taste to resulting energy to feeling satiated to better digestion.

The direction you should study is glyphosate and its effect on soil biodiversity.

Yep. I visited a regenerative farm for a beef conference a few months back and it is startling how detrimental industrial farming is in every way. From the quality of the crops to the environment.

100%

I actually was really healthy as a vegan with the exception of anemia. I rarely ate processed foods or sugar though and most vegans eat an abundance of them.