This is anecdotal and doesn’t really prove anything.
I have the same anecdote for the opposite argument. All of the vegetarian and vegans I know are very healthy. And I know a lot of them.
Discussion
Most of the ones I know, even the super active ones, either look very unhealthy, are often bloated & gassy, or struggle with undesirable body composition issues (still not happy with abs, etc) & they tend to blame age.
There are quite a few recovering vegans out there who talk about their health completely collapsing after some nunber of years despite all sorts of efforts at supplementation & rather extraordinary lengths to "do things right."
From what I've seen, the difference in outcomes between vegans & vegetarains who cheat once in a while vs those who don't is pretty dramatic. It seems that the human body is pretty amazing & a little cheating can go a long way.
It’s worth noting that industrial farming practices in the US that lead to the degradation of soil have resulted in vegetables that have very low nutritional value. There’s an inaccuracy in blaming the vegetables themselves.
It’s also worth noting that there’s specific knowledge that goes into being able to have a proper vegan or vegetarian diet and not everyone has that knowledge. There’s a large percentage of people who are “doing it wrong.”
This. 🎯 on both points.
I ate a whole food, plant based diet for almost 3 years and most vegans I know were fat.
What are you basing that on, the low nutritional value bit?
It’s been widely studied. The link between the health of the soil and the resulting nutritional value of whatever grows from that soil.
It has to do with soil as an ecosystem that needs biodiversity. Monoculture and fertilizers and most industrial farming practices significantly reduce the quality of the soil by “killing off” many of the crucial components of the soil ecosystem (many microorganisms for example).
Does that make sense?
I’d like to see a study comparing nutrient density over time or something similar. You can look up nutrient content in vegetables, and that’s also been studied and verified.
Yeah. In this day and age there’s a study for almost anything.
I believe it because it makes complete sense to me and because I’ve studied permaculture and many of my friends have permaculture projects. I have personal experience with eating veggies that come from very healthy soil and I can immediately feel the difference in my body. From taste to resulting energy to feeling satiated to better digestion.
The direction you should study is glyphosate and its effect on soil biodiversity.
I actually was really healthy as a vegan with the exception of anemia. I rarely ate processed foods or sugar though and most vegans eat an abundance of them.
There is a HUGE vegan community in my city and most and the most popular vegan fast food chain in the country started here. Sure it’s anecdotal, but the overwhelming majority of the community including the owner of that chain is overweight. Also from looking at medical histories every time I see a patient for the past 25 years, most are unhealthy as well.
I would speculate that this has more to do with “doing it wrong.”
A common mistake people make is to start eating a lot of processed foods as “meat alternatives,” and not knowing how to eat combinations that are satiating so they end up overeating.
Sure, but the fact is that they are fat on meds, but think are healthy because they eat a plant based diet.
The only 2 very fit vegans I know were in my triathlon club and I believe they would be in optimal shape no matter what diet they followed.
What do you mean by “fat on meds?”
I think we are generally agreeing?
We’re saying that people on plant based diets can still be very unhealthy. That many people equate plant based dieting with health, and that being on a plant based diet is not sufficient to be healthy if you are going about it in an unhealthy way (processed food, sugar, overeating because they haven’t figured out how to eat satiating meals, etc.)
And that plant based diets are not themselves unhealthy. That it’s possible to be healthy on a plant based diet.
Fat and on medications.
Yes we are mostly agreeing. I KNOW that it is possible to be mostly healthy on a plant based diet. It reversed my diabetes. BUT the vast majority are not healthy. I do not see this same phenomenon in people who follow the the carnivore diet.
Fat and on medications for what?
I don’t know about the “vast majority.” I guess it depends on where you are.
I believe what you are saying about where you are.
Where I am, the vast majority of people on plant based diets are very healthy.
Usually obesity related chronic diseases like high blood pressure or diabetes. The longest vegan I know is a patient and dear friend who has eaten plant based for over 40 years. She is 100lbs overweight.
I’ve come to the conclusion that (1) exercising and (2) eating a low ingredient, nutrient dense diet is the best thing you can do for your health.
The most nutrient dense, low ingredient diet there is, is the carnivore diet.
Amen
@susiebdds also check out what I wrote here https://iris.to/note1afn9psa9yfs7vs9zujtvgqn9wuedtezrdye0ff77gdkgqqzclc0sthk2eh