To be clear I'm not attacking you, your platform, or your products. I'm speaking out loud.

I believe I'm also a generally a realist that's refusing to ignore a problem with the idea of marketing a product to slightly-above average users wanting to host a relay. I'm refusing to ignore the "well that's just the way it is" it feels like enabling a systemic problem. I spent many years in customer support simply providing education about a complex topic myself and still believe those were resources well spent. I'm arguing you cannot truthfully make the promise of nostr freedom using cloud services. Therefor it should not be marketed as such if that's going to be the case.

I would consider myself quite versed in sysadmin world and am regularly hit with the complications of the lifestyle of maintaining a mini data center of enterprise equipment.

I refuse to accept the "reality is people are simply too dumb, busy or bothered" so I will sell them convenience and a one-size fits all approach in perpetuity. The problem is still user education, and we keep avoiding it.

I will accept that no economic incentives exist to educate users. In fact economic incentives exist to keep users ignorant in much of the world. Most TV commercials express the message "don't do X, we can do it for you"

I just think we need to be more cautious about how were marking products and still align with the promises that can be delivered, when nostr generally makes grandiose freedom and ownership promises.

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>The problem is still user education, and we keep avoiding it.

That's because user education isn't a product that can be easily sold or marketed. People want to purchase bandaids, pills, and duct tape. People simply want to be sold good enough.

All good man, I'm not quite following..

Fair. Things always sound more clear in my head :) I think this deserves a blog or something more long form.

It’s always a challenge to balance the “purist” approach with the practical realities. I imagine a Venn diagram, a small set of actions that allow us to be completely true to both.

if it doesn't pay the bills it isn't even considered, but with fiat a lot of that is just directing the flood of liquidity and not about actually meeting a market need

I would consider it more of an overton window.

I think there may be too much overlap with "practical realities" and cop out. Not in all cases, I guess it depends why were here.

This is why I see it as a Venn diagram. Super easy to meet one requirement without the other:

cypherpunk but no PMF

or

PMF but not cypherpunk

The challenge is to achieve both at the same time.

I think I can agree

i think the point is about finding legitimate market needs to fulfill

i've been saying this for some time

much of the money coming to bitcoin and nostr dev does not make conditions of contingency upon building an actual business model from it, just building some idealistic thing

if the focus was on making actual business, and not fiat VC burn, we'd be a lot more effective at getting people to come here and stay and turn off the mainstream

there just isn't much difference, shitty software, half assed ideas, and nobody actually trying to make a business that actually brings in enough money to pay the people making it happen

💯