In case you didn't know... White Noise doesn't require any infrastructure beyond standard Nostr relays.
Discussion
But who will run the relays? 😉
Group Admin.
Once they do, MLS isn't needed in the first place.
True. There is no incentive for relay owners to host random encrypted bloat events for free.
nostr:npub1zuuajd7u3sx8xu92yav9jwxpr839cs0kc3q6t56vd5u9q033xmhsk6c2uc should consider the ecosystem when using MLS. I foresee a future where relay owners eventually block kind-445 under the current spec.
I think you're missing something. The entire job of relays is to RELAY messages. To assert that every app building on Nostr must figure out profitable models for relay operators is retarded.
1. This "bloat" only needs to be stored for some medium length time (a month?) then it can be deleted if relays want.
2. Each group using White Noise can decide what relays they want to use. This leaves them wide open to zap (or pay in some other way) those relay operators.
OK, I might be wrong. Let's just see how it goes.
Relay IS running on a server, ffs! 😂😂😂
But it's not our server and it's not a single server. This is a way bigger deal than most understand. Relays are insanely simple and lightweight "servers".
Want to run a relay for your friends and family? It's smaller and lighter than a bitcoin node by far.
Want every participant in a group to run device local relays and only connect over mesh net or ham radio? Possible.
NIP-EE relay usage is very light and events should generally be considered temporary. There is nothing that needs to be archived or stored long-term on relays.
Serverless computing. Brought to you by servers :)
Got a question around that. To prevent meta data analysis and get Signal-like privacy, White Noise needs to rely on private relays, right? Public ones expose too much?
Nope. All group message events that are published to relays have no personally identifiable metadata attached to them. Only a random 32-byte group_id value (that can change over time, groups can also use multiple group_id values if they want). The content field of these events is an encrypted payload which, once decrypted, is itself is an encrypted payload that contains the actual group message. These events are published using one-time nostr identities each time.
If you're in the group, you know where to look for the group's messages and how to decrypt them. If you're not, all you can see is a relative amount of activity for a given group_id value (at least until it changes).
That’s actually super cool! This will increase the app’s robustness while reducing liability
Excited to try it when it comes out
Great work 👊