Replying to Avatar Lyn Alden

-I am relatively neutral on the drivechain tech itself, but lean toward not really thinking it’s the best solution. My relative neutrality is why I’ve not really commented on it directly much.

-However, the recent aggressive marketing push and attempted activation method by miners despite it being controversial have made me against it for now. I think bitcoin’s near immutability and maximal decentralization are its most important attributes for long-term success and monetization. So, the drivechain proponents have turned me from neutral to opposed on their proposed changes, at least for the next few years. Their arguments have numerous red flags such as overpromising the benefits, claiming there are no risks, claiming that bitcoin itself is at risk without their tech, using weak paid-for memes as part of the marketing strategy, being contradicted by their own dev Luke Dashjr, etc.

-I don’t agree with the “drivechain fixes the security budget problem” argument, nor do I necessarily agree that there is a security budget problem to begin with (let’s check back in 15 years and see then). We have no idea what bitcoin adoption will be in 15 years, and constantly tinkering with things is a central banker mentality. In truth, most of us are central bankers at heart, always wanting to tinker and optimize, and we are only prevented from doing so if the base layer is resistant to such temptations (eg gold or bitcoin). Bitcoin has like 1% of the volumes as Fedwire, does about as many transactions per day as Fedwire, is growing, and yet people are claiming it can never generate significant fees.

-I also don’t agree with the “Drivechain kills altcoins” argument. The killer feature of altcoins is seigniorage. That’s why they raise billions in VC money: to make use of regulatory arbitrage to harvest seigniorage via fast exit liquidity on retail investors. A small part of the altcoins ecosystem focuses on privacy or other good things, and drivechains mainly compete with that small part. Would I like to see some private sidechains, or more scalable sidechains, or more programmable sidechains on bitcoin? Sure. But we already have a number of them and they are not used much, in part because chain fees are usually low and in part because what most people want with altcoins is seigniorage (for creators and VCs) and speculation (for users).

-For now in terms of soft forks, I am more interested in covenants and like to see research in that direction. But even then, I would only support activation if they can build a very high level of consensus. But also I think scaling tech in general is under-explored, in part because of the low fee environment. I think people want to rush to change things at the base layer without fully fleshing out the tech, or understanding how people even want to use the network, or maximizing the existing set of options. I like the recent developments in chaumian ecash, which are barely implemented yet but are very interesting. I think Bitcoin is great, and there is no need to rush contentious base layer changes.

can you imagine gold bugs arguing over what is the best atomic structure for gold going forward ? promoting changes to gold using memes ? this is why Bitcoin is a joke.

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In any case we aren't meant to have a single currency to rule them all. If Bitcoin should somehow become the only currency then we are facing much of the same problem as with the Dollar. Currencies are meant to compete with each other.

I can’t see any logic here other than “that’s how it’s always been”. Humanity desperately needs a global, neutral, open money system. It will seem so obvious in a few years we’ll all wonder how we functioned without it.

Gold bugs basically sit around expecting things to collapse or for governments to repeg their currencies to gold. The narrative is always that within a few years they will have some giant price surge. I like gold and gold some, since it has some uses, but overall gold spent the past five decades getting left behind by the world.

What makes bitcoin interesting is that it is both fast and hard, and as an open source network can improve in various ways (either the base layer, or higher layers, or apps attached to it).

When people say bitcoin is a joke, my response is to ask them to show me something that does what bitcoin does better. If I want to hold value for the next several years self-custodially, in something that is unlikely to get diluted, with the capability to bring that value globally in arbitrary size with me of need be (can’t do that with cash or gold), and with minimization of ways that governments could freeze my holdings, what should I use?

I can’t say I like gold at all. Gold is technically the most abundant mineral in the universe. No one can tell you how much is in circulation, it’s easy to fake, difficult to verify, a challenge to store and transport.

I think in the western world, many would argue an S&P500 index fund held in a vanguard account would do what you said. It’ll generally hold its value, is accessible via a phone call to broker or a computer and password (sell some shares and withdraw cash from an atm anywhere in the world), and you probably won’t get rugged.

Sure it will have fluctuations in value and you could get rugged by the US government and/or broker, but the odds of that seem quite low (maybe as low as the US trying to ban bitcoin).

I personally believe Bitcoin has the best characteristics AND also huge asymmetry which is why I hold it, but just trying to steelman why a boomer would and probably can be satisfied with his ‘diversified’ equity portfolio, at least for the remaining few decades of his life.

I respect you too much to use the fast and hard joke that came to mind, but let it be known, that’s what she said.

Gold bugs outlook on the future is always negative and depressing. I own some gold and silver, but moving to a gold standard is not progress. More like regression.

Goldbugs are so desperate for the portability and divisibility of bitcoin they want a "gold backed crypto", which is just a centralized custodian with flare. Memes, in the field of mimetics, are what spread ideas; memes have been around for all of civilization and used for such things as, promoting different denominations of gold coinage. Equal measures of gold still carry different values today based on the desirability of the specific mints flavor. The "atomic structure" of bitcoin is in no way changed with drivechains, adding new transaction types to bitcoin does not remove your ability to self custody, it does not remove your ability to transact in censorship resistant ways, it does not inflate the supply, nor redistribute the wealth or anything else. Things proposed that would alter the fundamental operation of bitcoin, like proof of stake, are totally ignored.

goldback?