This! 💯🐶🐾🫡🫂
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Discussion
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I fear this might end up being the case. There’s no way the network will scale on the social side of things at least if we expect everyone to pay.
Sad, but true! Feels like a black hole for zaps, the more you put in, the less it gives back. Only Hawking’s radiation levels! 🐶🐾😂😂😂
I’ve drained all of my lightning spare funds and I can’t imagine this being sustainable. I don’t mind as I’m just having fun here but if we expect everyone to do the same that’s just not going to happen. Pay for relays, pay for clients, pay for storage, pay for content, zap on top of all of that?! Not gonna happen.
True! Getting too expensive too quickly! 🐶🐾🫡😭
Time horizon for return on investment needs to be longer for everyone. Nostr has seen a couple months of rapid growth and suddenly everyone acts like they’re supposed to be profiting from it. Lol
Another truth! I wonder if any content creator is actually making any profit on here. Same goes for any relay operators and app devs. 🐶🐾🤔
It’s tough because I know there are some very real costs involved and people are currently footing the bill themselves. It’s not sustainable at least in the short term. We need scale to be profitable. It seems we need some people with means to support the network early on.
Any business startup in any industry faces this.
Wish we had more sponsors! 🐶🐾🫂 even smaller ones are OK.
This is true with VC funded businesses. Bootstrapped expenses are usually lower, running a bootstrapped business should not be a digging your own hole thing. You’d better find revenue quickly if bootstrapped. The costs of not having a salary alone are the biggest expense.
Revenue, yes. Profit may take longer.
I can probably sustain burning about $300 a month for a while, but if I get no value out of that, then motivation will disappear. Really hope that we can make things work. 🐶🐾🫡🫂
Did you see when Will (the founder of Damus) said he needed like $600 worth of sats each month and he got all of it in one post?
I usually spend at least a few hundred (fiat dollars)each time on zapathons so I am forever transferring into my WoS…this is costing me hundreds each week but for me it’s entertainment…I could easily spend more when I’m out somewhere else!
This too! As long as it is entertaining and worth it! 🐶🐾🫡🫂😂
Yeah I’m here for a good time and hopefully a long time! 😂💜
Same here! We need to make this place bonkers! 🐶🐾😂😂😂🫂
I spend as much as I can here. There is so much value for me in supporting the ideals of this protocol and the people who entertain and educate me.I don’t extract value from the protocol through sats. I mine value from the people who share this space with me through our conversations, laughs, and ideas.
Someone should create a onlysats.com website.
Neeeeeed
This platform has so much potential and power, I see a massive future here so I like to think I’m investing in it somehow. Plus it’s much cheaper than my usual shopping sprees! 💜
Lol! My family dinner goes into sats and zaps! I mean one outing with family! Sure can do! 🐶🐾😂😂😂🫂
💜
So much of this conversation reminds me of the early days of the Internet when articles often stated that they didn’t see how the Internet could last. It was just a fad and there wasn’t enough ways to make money from it. Some of us laughed at these thought processes. I could see that there were plenty of ways to monetize it, but even I am amazed at how things have turned out. There’s lots of stuff for Nostr to unleash and much of that will be from people who haven’t even started using it yet. Will be curious to see the next few years. Just think that up until 2023, Nostr was barely being used. Only a few short months and wow.
As someone who has been on here for about a week, I couldn’t agree more!
Yes 💯 We are the testing ground. Nostr is great now and has even greater potential. Imagine when a billion people are on Nostr 🤯 It is not the current user base alone that will support that level of growth. It is those billion users who will support it, whether that be through monetary support, further development, bringing content and audiences and commerce, etc. Great things to come for those willing to take the long view of the road.
True! 🐶🐾🫡🫂
What if we implemented ad-like features in which the revenue was paid in percentages to the relays for hosting the ads, then some small amount to each user who viewed the ads?
That’s value to the end user for their time, value to the relay for hosting to their audience, and value to the marketer by deciding how far of a reach they want based on how much they want to spend.
We could even evolve it to an opt-in system (on the client side) and maybe a self-directed algo where I truly see ads for content I am interested in, and how many a day or specified time, not what someone thinks I am based on rage posting.
Way more effective in my opinion and generates a properly aligned incentive model for revenue generation without selling out users.
Good idea! 🐶🐾🫡
I don’t use other services like Twitter Facebook etc etc as I detest advertising amongst other bullshit. I am happy to pay a premium per month not to see it at all. Just pay to be part of something I see value in
I am fan of premium subscription without ads too! 🐶🐾🫂
Some people don’t mind ads and they should make that choice!
I agree as long as I have an option to totally opt the fuck out
Exactly. I said relay, but I guess really this could & should be more client-based than relay based. Allows an income stream for #[10] #[11] #[12] #[13] and others but also gives the users autonomy to opt-in and get paid while providing a cost incentive not to spam the crap out of everyone. Think Brave browser-esque design.
Domain is taken! Think harder! onlyzaps.com also taken. 🐶🐾🫡
I started designing it and we are in talks about making it happen. No promises though has I’m not the developer.
Sure! Zapped myself too. 🐶🐾🫡
I’m sure they’re on here, anyone with a lot of #Bitcoin can easily spare a couple thousand sats a month. But also non-rich users can help, there just needs to be an easily systematic way of doing so.
Is there not a way of showing the amounts that each relay needs per month to operate, somewhat like a go fund me. There has to be an easy open source way of creating that. There are so many devs on here, I guarantee someone can build it in a day.
I am sure relays will be fine! I consider it a solved problem. You make it paid, and that’s it. Content that is what makes nostr , and that is probably what we are referring to! 🐶🐾🫡
Agreed. I gotta say, though, most (not all) of the big free relays have come a long ways on spam prevention. I hope they can survive the future. I think there will always be free clients because they are easy to build and you can put the resource cost on the users.
Clarification: didn’t mean “easy” to build a full feature client, but easy to get started due to the simplicity of the protocol.
I was about to make a comment about that. 🐶🐾😂😂😂 “easy” and SW dev do not go together!
#plebchain we've got to support our freedom
#[1]
I'm eager to help deving but zero coding knowledge. Where can i kickstart learnining to code and help devs?
It’s a long path, start with translation and documentation. Read code! Learn fundamentals of Computer Science. Use your other skills that you have and apply to anything that they will fit! 🐶🐾🫂🫡
Bit of autism here, so not good with pattern finding and Need a learning path to follow. Any specific language like python or else? By translate you means actually translate to other human languages? That i can do. 💜🫂
Python is a good starting point, but you’ll need fundamentals to build it on. So learn some about how computers and networks work! Translation from one to the other human language, yes! 🐶🐾🫡
Thanks ⚡️
Have some free digital energy ⚡
this is great 👍
🫂
A big topic during the show Friday with #[4] was that we are ground zero of Value 4 Value. We figure this out, we set the blueprint forward.
Whether it’s a passive native wallet fee, a monthly optional client subscription and etc…
The point is a little from everyone goes along way. When we keep doing fund raisers it stresses the most generous and becomes unsustainable.
I believe it has to be setup in a subconscious way with the collective sprinkle of the masses.
I agree, on the other hand, there will be also people who rather prefer ads instead of paying.
Also I am not sure about the percentage of people who rather pay vs rather has adds.
🫡
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I think an additional commission on zaps in favor of verified relay holders/payers can help. I mean user zap the user, but content maker does not receive everything, some part (1 sat minimum) goes to decentralized infrastructure fund or directly to relay holders.
One of the great challenges of our being a sustainable network on a global scale over time.
Back in the day… you replied to one my note & gave me the biggest zap I had ever seen!! Ya sent me 6,000 sats!!! For newbie it huge, and I want you to know it made me feel so special. I was dancing 💃 and so excited!! I couldn’t believe it. So I’ll gladly add to this fren 🫂🫶❤️💜🧡
Your work is appreciated mate. I do what I can ⚡️⚡️⚡️🤙💪
Been saying that for a while. The larger the network the more expensive to run the relays. Especially with the spam.
I think this is more toward content creators who get very little. Relays are paid for and can charge sats , as they do. I already pored more than 200k into relays and their membership giveaways. 🐶🐾🫡
I think the problem on the relay side is that at a point it will become more expensive to scale. Currently you can run relays on a relatively cheap VPS but eventually you are likely to need clustered backend databases, multiple front end servers and load balancers to handle load. One time payments for relays won’t be sustainable so they will need to move to subscription models. The same scaling issues for image hosting.
I have a thought that for content creators and relays the solution might be content creator specific relays which charge a small fee per event written. A split of the fee goes to the relay operator and a split goes to the creator. That way it supports both without requiring additional zaps on top.
A lot of people won't pay. And the ones that do will gravitate towards one or two big relays (centralizing). What about the devs? These apps are free and I'm sure these guys are either sponsored by someone wealthy or living off donations (not a comfortable feeling).
Luckily relays only have to worry about pushing text. The guys hosting the media are the real MVPs.
There's gotta be a way to monetize this and preserve the atmosphere.
All good points. I guess premium features in the apps is a good way to earn for app devs. Relays can be paid, and that should be the way.
Media is a hard problem, and costly. Subscription is one way, but revenue sharing is another. Many ways to solve problems, just choosing one that will work and scale is really hard! 🐶🐾🫡
I suggested earlier that they should have convenience features as part of a subscription model. I.e. Push notifications. Media uploading. Things that don't break the app but make life easier.
Good point. Probably more creative features that save time and make things more convenient for sure! 🐶🐾🫡
My thought was only really for the specific case of creators wanting to monetise content and providing the infrastructure to do that. Media hosting would also be part of the package. You could have subscriptions for a creator and their notes/media are only provided to those who have paid the subscription or zappable preview notes that unlock “premium” content. In each case a share goes to the relay/media host and a share to the creator.
I agree that the bigger issue is how to provide a low cost solution for the majority of users who just want to chat, post memes etc, but still cover the costs of the infrastructure requirements and developers. I don’t know what the solution is but I can’t see many people paying a subscription for 5-10 relays, media hosting, a mobile client and a desktop client each month. And then donating to devs and zapping notes on top of that.
Nothing wrong with ads lol
Until they overtake content! Early internet users like myself know this drill all too well! I pay for YouTube premium just because I can’t stand ads! 🐶🐾🫡
