i’ve never met howard and Strike has no relationship with Cantor. they have nothing to do with our lending product
Discussion
Hey Jack. People are concerned that you are going over to the dark side by strengthening the fiat system.
lol how am i doing that? i’m always happy to answer any questions anyone has. i don’t know what to do when people lie about me except for just keep building and let me work speak for itself
I’m a big fan Jack. Just relaying the message. I’d love to interview you. I’ll explain more. Keep up the good work. Love Strike!
Bitcoin backed loans increase demand for dollars, do they not?
Who is the beneficiary of lending dollars but the fiat system?
No lie there as said, you do have jewish connections whether you’re aware of it or not is a different matter. Demand for dollars strengthens the fiat system.
I’m not even hating, I like Strike and am happy people can borrow against their bitcoin.
Bitcoin-backed loans don’t strengthen fiat. They let Bitcoiners access liquidity without selling their Bitcoin, reducing selling pressure and keeping Bitcoin held as an asset. The demand for dollars in these loans is temporary, serving as a bridge to maintain Bitcoin exposure. People can take the fiat from these loans and buy Bitcoin if they’d like.
If anything, they increase demand for Bitcoin, not fiat.
unless you can grow your fiat faster than bitcoin it's still stupid
because of fiat, businesses growing faster than bitcoin is like 2% of all enterprises. over half of them will not make the money back to finish the loan and get the bitcoin back, so it's stupid, sorry, not sorry. i know you are an entrepreneur and what you just said is dishonest.
what?
i’m not dishonest, maybe misunderstood? the point isn’t to grow fiat faster than Bitcoin, it’s to keep Bitcoin exposure without having to sell it. if someone takes out a Bitcoin-backed loan, they’re betting that Bitcoin’s future appreciation outpaces the cost of borrowing fiat. That’s not for everyone, but for those who believe in Bitcoin’s long-term value, it’s a strategic play, not a cash grab
I understand it!
Thank you
so, it's like taking out a mortgage
you don't think that eventually lenders are going to factor this in and offer rates that still see them do better than their baseline premium?
if i get a lone backed by bitcoin capital, and the bitcoin winds up being worth less than the interest i paid, i'm losing. i would have been better off keeping the bitcoin and running a lightning node to spend it frugally on business expenses than this nonsense. and if the purchases were feeding a profitable business, it has to do better than bitcoin's price appreciation or i'm not really benefiting.
most businesses mainly need a steady cashflow and if you already held your bitcoin for a long enough time to see it fighting inflation already it is already sufficient as a means to do big capex.
the only context that bitcoin as collateral for a loan works is about 2 year time window, if it's 3-4 years or more between acquiring and spending it, you are not better off.
which makes it a very high time preference choice to get a loan on it.
unless you held it for long enough to get to the next level of the stairsteps of the price curve it's not a good asset for loans, and if you did, you don't need loans.
borrowing against bitcoin isn’t for everyone, and it’s not a blanket recommendation. it’s about optionality and having this service available to bitcoiners, which now have over $2T of wealth. if you believe bitcoin will appreciate over the loan term and you have a productive use for the capital you’re getting, it can be a strategic move. otherwise, holding and compounding bitcoin may be the better play. it’s not about forcing a high time preference, it’s about maximizing optionality without have to sell the asset.
if you don't believe that bitcoin appreciates better than 98% of enterprises at this point you are simply not even doing the most basic research on it.
what bothers me is that the lenders are essentially printing money to do this, their risk is basically below zero, which is kinda cynical and exploitative.
who better to give your bitcoin to for your enterprise than someone who is engaging in fiat loan activity with their bitcoin hating banksters? lol, really.
sure, you are gonna gain in fiat terms as the lender but i doubt this is the right move for a founder who is probably going to sink because of taxes and inflation on their fiat assets.
Jumping in and appreciate the opportunity to ask a couple questions:
1) does Strike or any related company lend out the bitcoin collateral for additional return?
2) What did you mean by “…holding and compounding bitcoin…”
Again, appreciate all the discussion.
bitcoin doesn't compound so that's a deceptive statement right off the bat
it's an inflation hedge that is superior to gold, which is choked by the manipulations of rehypothecated paper at comex
Let’s let Jack answer that, but I get what you are saying.
What I always tell people about manipulated paper #bitcoin is if you think the price is consistently suppressed, consistently go buy more and take it into self custody. You can’t do that with any other product with such ease, and you are technically getting a discount on your bitcoin.
no, there is nonrehypthecation. we will also soon have some variation of proof of reserves lending
i meant just HODLing and the sats growing at something like 50% CAGR
exactly my point... the only use case for bitcoin collateral based fiat lending is exactly capex that you expect to make better than the interest rate you get charged in a 2-3 year time window, and i woud add to that, only a year after halving and for the next 1-2 years after that is actually a bad time to do it, it only makes sense to loan out your bitcoin to a lender during the flat periods when your straight gains on your illiquid capital are going to be lower than a reasonable estimate of your positive cash flow from your enterprise
and i would further say that if your enterprise is overladen with costs already you get a bigger benefit from dropping staff, or freezing hiring than anything else during those times. the biggest business cost is people, and then just below that is regulatory uncertainty and taxation.
Thanks for making (non-)repos clear. It’s a wonderful thing, bitcoin, and a major company overlaying proof of reserves is groundbreaking.
Now, if we didn’t need to KYC ourselves for strike access, and the keys for bitcoin were also kept outside of strike, I would be at the front of the parade. Maybe someday we will be there.
yep, would be nice. can’t provide that due to laws, but i’m going to keep pushing
Regardless of laws, what individual in the history of humanity has loaned something to someone whom they do not know?
At some point it stops being a loan and starts being a gift because the former requires the item/money is returned. If you don’t know who you loaned it to, how can you ever expect it to be returned?
This is the future we need to build toward, building stateless, privacy protecting protocols that fiat issuing governments can participate alongside paper issuing corporates and individuals. All voluntarily participating.
Sounds like a fantasy, sure, but now that bitcoin has arrived someone will build it, maybe us, maybe the next generation, or maybe the generation after that. Someone inevitably will and because laws will not be a reason. So why not start now.
Even if the bitcoin depreciates over the loan term(which 12mo term is more likely than say, 48 or 60mo terms), the liquidity access can still be crucial for individuals who can beat the interest rate, as it’s all paid back in fiat, not bitcoin. The bitcoin just sits as collateral.
Say I wanted to build a house, but my primary asset is bitcoin, and therefor i don’t qualify for a construction loan. I could fund the building of my house using a bitcoin backed loan, then mortgage the house to pay off that loan.
Construction loans are getting harder and harder to come by, as builders don’t want to take the risk and prefer cash buyers.
nothing i said disagrees with your argument. i'm just saying that timing is important, bitcoin bull markets are a bad time to lend it out, you would be better selling it little at a time during those periods.
Better selling it? So I can pay cap gains tax and then buy it back at higher prices?
Good way to stay poor.
Yup, a good way to have fun….
timing the market is not strike’s job. we’re not here to speculate on bitcoin’s price or advise people on when to borrow or sell. we’re here to provide tools and optionality for people to make their own decisions. if someone believes bitcoin will appreciate and wants to maintain exposure without selling, they can now choose to borrow. if they’d rather sell, that’s their call too, we can help with that. we’re not in the business of telling people what to do with their bitcoin. we just giving them options to improve bitcoin’s utility for the world
Timing is important. It seems like you know when the bull run is coming. Will you please let me know when the bull and bears will arrive?
2 quick items to think of.
1. When you sell bitcoin you only get fiat in return.
-plus pay taxes. That is great!
2. When you take a loan on bitcoin you
-keep the original bitcoin amount just use it as collateral,
-pay a small portion of the balance and interest,
-plus get fiat to use the fiat.
-pay no taxes.
If that isn’t winning… I don’t know what is.
I guess not everyone runs their life like a business. Some run it as a consumer.
People can make their own decisions, we are all big boys with big boy pants.
Stop derailing the original conversation about the jewish connections with this left curve nonsense
I'm curious if you know what happens if there's a significant drawdown. Does one need to add more collateral to avoid partial liquidation? Guessing so, but never seen it addressed
Yeah typically the lender wants you to maintain a certain LTV (typically ~50%) if that goes up they will probably ask you to add more collateral and when a threshold is met and no additional collateral is added they liquidate the collateral to protect the loan
Thanks, thought it was strange hadn't heard it addressed. Grace periods etc., don't really know how it all works. Prob worth educating people more about that imo
Yeah, it’s a pretty standard practice similar to trading on margin and needing to keep the margin maintenance at a certain level to avoid getting a margin call.
I imagine the user interface walks you through this when you take out a loan
Yes margin call at 70% LTV with 24 hrs to bring collateral up to 60% and 80% causes liquidation. It’s a bad idea.
If you build a successful business with your loan you get to pay down the principle and get your coins back with now an additional cash flow to continue stacking.
You seem to have a mindset of an employee.
Agreed. By allowing temporary leverage it can facilitate the purchases of additional investments like other projects and assets without Bitcoin liquidation. The Bitcoin held is helping people and companies build their wealth through tapping part of the equity for growth actions. Solid tool in the toolbox.
if the asset doesn't grow against bitcoin, it's a net loss, metoo
The asset only has to grow against the int rate of the bitcoin loan if only judged by growth in the loan period. Or more commonly, the loan can act as a bridge to refi the purchased asset or the revenue on the inventory etc. in this bredge loan case the int is a cost but hopefully is worth the gains after stabilization of the new asset. It’s a great tool.
You pay the loan back in fiat, and then get the bitcoin back. You’re not selling your bitcoin to acquire some asset that then needs to beat bitcoin appreciation, you just need to pay back the fiat you borrowed.
yes, but you obviously haven't tried entrepreneurship because if that loan costs you more than the collateral asset could have been sold for then you are still in arrears on your cashflow.
Selling assets incurs additional costs as well as relinquishing ownership. Quite often those factors make the decision to take a loan out an easy one vs selling.
HFSP tho, if you lend it when you would profit more by spending it as you need to during a bull run
especially right now, lending bitcoin for capex is a dumb idea, better plan is to phase your expenditure as much as you can, defer it because your passive gains are going to be better if you don't.
economy right now is in chaos because of the new regime in washington and it's affecting the global market all over the place. i'm cheering for efforts to disrupt things to reduce the asymmetries but right now my main concern is doing my job well and ensuring that my work doesn't get wasted on bad decisions about subjects i'm something of an expert in (eg, spam, social networks, network security in general, cryptography).
so, i'm just gonna say, all these companies racing to offer bitcoin loans are clearly seeing an opportunity to profit at the expense of enterprises, because it makes no sense to spend an asset that is growing proportionally to your holdings, versus other times when the growth is sub-inflation.
Your not lending any bitcoin. Your premise is totally false. You’re getting a loan using bitcoin as collateral. How can anyone take you seriously if your fundamental premise misunderstands the product?
The taxes part is what makes it make sense.
Fiat institutions collecting interest by lending dollars to people pledging bitcoin as collateral is not strengthening the fiat system? Common
Two things can be true. This product both reduces sell pressure on bitcoin in the short term and strengthens fiat institutions that get that sweet interest thanks to their ability to magically conjure money out of thin air.
Assuming people will buy bitcoin with the borrowed fiat is that just an assumption. Any way you slice it you end up with people close to the money printer enriching themselves
I’m not even criticizing it, it’s a messy world out there
Happy Strike exists, but gotta call it how I see it
People are funny. If the fiat system crashes today then we all would be wishing we held more bitcoin. As I see it…. I don’t want the fiat system crashing. What would people that don’t use bitcoin do? Take from those that have bitcoin because we would be the only ones buying things in the stores.
Of course those with USDT will also be buying at the stores, but only if the hold it on Strike.
Keep up the great show Paula!
#mynodemychoice
#yournodeyourchoice
#bitcoin
#bitcoinlightning
#noderunners
#bitcoinmining
#bitcoinknots
#iamtheregulator
#youaretheregulator
#choosewisely
Good to know Strike and Twenty One Capital will be completely separate entities with no overlap
Fair enough bro
You know who has something to do with Strike’s lending product? Of course you know, duh, NYDIG led by mega Jew Ross Stevens that pulled $100M from the University of Pennsylvania’s business school because they weren’t cracking down on “antisemitism” hard enough in 2023.
Remember kids the further you go up the fiat ladder, the closer you get to the synagogue of Satan. Lets hope Jack hasnt kissed the wall or been “on video” yet.
GM Sir, are you able to kindly advise whether the CEP ticker will be renamed XXI on NYSE or whether they will co-exist post merger?