Nostr Web Client

Amboss 8mo ago 💬 24

Sending stablecoins on Tron now costs up to $6 per transaction. 😳

For a centralized network built to be "cheap", that’s a steep price just to move USDT.

4 reasons Lightning will win the global stablecoin race:

1. Low fees – Move sats (or stables) for fractions of a cent

2. Instant settlement – No pending state, no waiting for blocks

3. Scales natively – Handles global volume without congestion or fee spikes

4. Built on Bitcoin – No tradeoffs on decentralization or security

Stablecoins need better rails. Bitcoin’s already got them.

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Discussion

The Yuri 8mo ago

Can USDT transactions or wallets be censored on Lightning like Tether likes to do on shitcoin chains?

Lincoln 8mo ago

Yes. The transactions are on lightning rails, but USDT is still issued by Tether, and can be seized/“censored” by them, no matter the rails.

The Yuri 8mo ago

How?

Ethereum and Tron have special smart contracts that allow specifically to freeze wallet addresses.

USDT on Liquid can’t be frozen, for example.

Lincoln 8mo ago

Tether can freeze any account balance, invalidating it from being traded. Tether can flag any account to say it isn’t convertible to USD. Then the wallet software would pick that up, say it’s no good, and stop any transactions.

Tether is centralized. Just because the rails aren’t doesn’t make the USDT suddenly un-censorable.

Jestopher 8mo ago

You're saying it confidently, but halting a natively issued Taproot Asset in a lightning channel has the censorship resistance of Bitcoin.

Lincoln 8mo ago

It isn’t about halting the transaction. It’s about what happens when you want that USDT to be worth something when you need to spend it. Tether needs to know where each of their USDT tokens is. You break the law, they can invalidate your tokens. That’s how the system works.

Putting things on Bitcoin doesn’t magically make them un-censorable. Tether is still a centralized company and asset.

Lincoln 8mo ago

Any response? What am I missing?

Jestopher 8mo ago

You're missing the fact that invalidating the tokens held within a lightning channel is impossible while the channel remains open. There is no possibility to invalidate them without reversing botcoin transactions.

You can continue to spend and receive lightning transactions in USDT even though Tether would be (likely) obligated to invalidate them, but would lack the means to do so.

Lincoln 8mo ago

So you’re telling me that USDT on lightning will be able to avoid all the current confiscation abilities Tether currently has on other chains? That Tether, the company, will have to honor any USDT tokens exchanged on lightning for actual USD?

Yeah, there’s no way. USDT on lightning will have the same confiscation abilities available to other chains.

Want to put some sats on it? I will bet you 10k sats that any wallet that has USDT abilities on lightning will be censorable. You say it won’t. 10k sats on it.

Lincoln 8mo ago

nostr:nprofile1qqsrjxqeute0zwusetrjp9qeadt5aa7q686wsxr8lsjvg73uuh52yjqpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet59uq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwd45kcmm49ekx7mp0wm2k4w let’s make it 50k sats. What do you say?

Jestopher 8mo ago

I do love betting but I'm just not interested in this as a bet and I'm already dedicating my company to serve related purposes.

My main interest in this realm is informing as I learn more.

Jestopher 8mo ago

Additionally, there are sufficient bounds for this to be table even if I were interested.

Simply because it would not be possible at launch doesn't rule out future developments that would enable some revokable feature.

Lincoln 8mo ago

I’ll go out on a limb and say, day 1, this will be the case. Remove any ambiguity. Any wallet that accepts USDT on lightning will be censorable, and there will not be a single wallet which can accept USDT without the company being able to invalidate the tokens.

I understand and appreciate you being dedicated to your company. But I think you spoke with such conviction, stating it was I who was wrong, to now go back and say “I’m here to learn” is a cop-out.

Jestopher 8mo ago

Day 1 of what? USDT being issued on lightning or a new wallet adopting it?

What does it mean to be censorable versus an actual enforcement action mandating censorship?

USDT on lightning is live today on speed wallet, but it's a custodial wallet. You could say it's censorable because of its custody design, but not due to the protocol.

You're putting money on cynicism without bothering to define extremely vague terms. The burden then falls on me because I understand the tech. I don't see a way to objectively validate a censorship event, which won't be public, (I'll be under NDA,) or will be a public accusation but it's impossible to validate that a lightning transaction occurred or didn't occur.

This is a stupid bet and I'm not interested. I don't mean to bring these things up to get you to define them. I'm not interested.

Lincoln 8mo ago

It’s simple: if you cannot transfer it for something you value, and it still have value to the individual you transferred it to, it is censorable.

Good luck with your company and NDA. Tether will never be uncensorable (as defined above).

Tauri 8mo ago

Stablecoins are shitcoins in a fancy wrap. They’ve got the same choke points as modern banking.

The Yuri 8mo ago

I’m asking specifically about the ability to freeze stablecoin transactions on Lightning.

MRbtc 8mo ago

Lightning is a hot wallet

Rizful.com (zap tester) 8mo ago

We did some zap tests on this note… we made six attempts to⚡zap this note, at mrbtc1@lifpay.me, over a period of about 2 hours. In each case, we found that your lightning address server did not respond correctly. (The failure point was when we did a GET request to your specified callback URL: https://lifpay.me/api/ln/lnurl/payreq/mrbtc1_244814 ). Your server did not produce an invoice, thus the zap failed. The error we got was "Receive or send bitcoin is currently unavailable, please refer to announcement. ". You might want to look into using a cloud-based Lightning node which is optimized for Nostr zaps, to get your zaps working.

b7c7f5d3... 8mo ago

Ditto

SwapMarket 8mo ago 💬 1

It is $0.02 on Liquid and takes 1 minute. And Liquid BTC = regular BTC.

goatmeal 8mo ago

>Liquid BTC = regular BTC

liar

SwapMarket 8mo ago 💬 1

Huh? The Liquid BTC coin value is pegged 1:1, same as Lightning, unlike Tron or other shitcoins. And creating new Liquid coins does not inflate the number of manchain BTC in circulation, because the latter get locked in Federation multisig wallet until the former are verifiably burnt.

goatmeal 8mo ago

it's literally an IOU on a totally separate blockchain that doesn't use proof of work at all. the bridge isn't trustless or permissionless and neither is the block production. it couldn't be more "isn't bitcoin" if it tried. you're so dumb that you think anything with a B next to it is somehow magically just as good as bitcoin as long as you can use it as an excuse to pump your bags. go fuck yourself.

SwapMarket 8mo ago

Instant or never. How will edge nodes hedge short option risk?

ede3d957... 8mo ago 💬 1

"Bitcoiners" celebrating the enshitification of Lightning while hating on Monero.

Wild.

nostr:nevent1qqswxl9mjkgv6ch3m6nf7vcxzfqpr200chqc8ghfg0vhytvrcmjjwjcpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyq40q8sdd0gmn7aeu02rz47kgkg0kf7ul09tu2rcffvr9ctma7u8kqcyqqqqqqgyv3z9f