Conversely, all the folks who were staying out due to fears of quantum theft can buy your coins.
Discussion
that’s great. I’m here for unencumbered property rights, which that would shatter. I bet you’d love to get your filthy hands on someone else’s coins.
As explained in the article, property rights get shattered in either case, so it's a moot point.
by definition, you would have to do this preemptively to any “quantum attack” which may never come. it’s a nice talking point though.
Clearly. And no one is seriously claiming this should be done today.
What we're saying is we should be PLANNING today for all possible contingencies.
if we want to plan, we need to give the free market the ability to CHOOSE whether they go to quantum resistant addresses or not.
there is no scenario where the network should freeze someone else’s coins. it’s absolute nonsense and destroys bitcoin’s fundamental value, which you seem keen on doing.
Opt-in PQC makes sense today when the threat is remote.
If the threat becomes imminent then opt-in only becomes far less useful.
who decides whether a quantum threat is “imminent?”
why should anyone trust an “altruistic” actor to destroy someone’s property rights before a quantum computer does?
how do you know coins are lost or if someone has chosen not to move to quantum resistant addresses?
I’m sorry but I’m not falling for this bullshit where the network gives away its rights under the guise of an altruistic actor.
It sets a dangerous precedent. In the future, what “attacks” will be deemed serious enough to again infringe on property rights?
bitcoin’s fundamental value comes from the fact that the network cannot under any circumstance freeze your funds. If I choose not to go to quantum resistant addresses, and a quantum computer cracks my keys, that’s on me and it was my choice.
This all stinks of bullshit from someone that wants to infringe on property rights.
Well said !
thanks 🫡 it is very important that we defend property rights in bitcoin or else everything is lost.
Couldn’t agree more. Property rights are sacred.
Seems to me there are more and more conversations in Bitcoin that propose a violation of such rights.
As Bitcoin matures and grows, the frequency of people who wish to violate property rights will likely grow as well.
We must always stand up for what’s right.
spot on
You are 100% correct. Brute force guessing of private keys has always been and will always be a possibility. Once we allow this to be justification for stealing (aka freezing) coins, Bitcoin will cease to provide any assurance of property ownership. Your coins will only be secure as long as the anointed high priests of Bitcoin core say so.
spot on and you summed it up much better than I did🤣
I'll follow u for this.
and I will follow anyone who respects property rights🫡 nice to meet you sir
BIP 6102
This is what Jameson lopp is trying to turn Bitcoin into in case you're wondering
Every individual node operator decides for themselves which rules they accept.
Beyond that, what rules become "Bitcoin" in practice are whatever subset of rules have the overwhelming majority of economic actors enforcing them.
Man your arguments are deeply flawed.
The fact that you think I'm making an argument shows how ignorant you are.
Sounds like a democracy in which human votes are counted.
and only 15% running the latest version... so 85% of nodes will have unspendable coins if your "soft" forks go forward.
you can’t have an honest discussion with someone with dishonest motives.
Or with someone who has no understanding of the issue!
You have no idea what you're talking about, that statistic has no relationship to my BIP.
it tells me 85% of the network just wants to cruise and forcing them to transfer their coins to a new wallet type won't happen.
Those two things are unrelated.
https://blog.lopp.net/when-do-bitcoin-node-operators-upgrade/
Planning as a word is contentious and raising hackles. Discussing possible responses isnt contentious. We're a long way from planning stages. That's for when you want to get detailed on a particular proposal that's arisen through discussion.
I am. Planning to buy some cheap sats when some treasure hunters show up. And then planning to be sad when it ends faster than anyone expected because they can only be compromised once.
Maybe we should freeze Coinbase's coins too as it's only a matter of time before they end up with governance that causes them to blow up, and they hold keys to a huge chunk of the network.
We need to freeze Satoshis Bitcoin to stop someone getting rich if they hack him!!!
Yeah um, if quantum computing is a threat to Bitcoin, it's a threat to the entire financial system, all cryptography etc.
In which case none of it matters.
You're proposing seizing and freezing people's Bitcoin over a fake threat which if it was real would be a bigger threat to everything else anyway.
In a Pascal's wager sort of sense.
The thing is, for this to work, it'd have to be done BEFORE a quantum threat arises.
And it never may.
But let's just assume we need to operate like it will for fear of the theoretical repecussions however unfounded they are.
At least the thief is honest about what they are. You have the audacity to suggest your theft is somehow justified.
and that's SO MANY people...
Can buy their coins? How would that work in this scenario?
yeah, is a centralized authority going to resell them after seizure?
How is it possible for you to be on the wrong side of EVERY issue in Bitcoin Lopp?
Ok, let’s try something: chocolate or vanilla?
odd. there’s always this ‘extreme edge case’ focus with you
It's because Bitcoin is incredibly well designed. All of the low hanging fruit has been harvested, now we're just trimming fringe along the edges.
Admittedly, I am a mid-brain just beginning to get into this stuff.
But from what I hear the number of workable qubits is growing very quickly, and that is accelerating.
The implication of that is that instead of looping for eons to find a solution to a problem all possible solutions within that qubit space can be attempted, basically simultaneously.
This seems to reduce the probability that doing nothing is a workable strategy.
I don’t have an informed opinion for how Bitcoin needs to solve this.
But it seems clear to me that (without wanting to sound alarmist), we do need to work on this … very soon.