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Matt Corallo 1y ago

It’s weeks like this that you have to wonder whether Bitcoin has a real shot at all.

* We thought mining was centralized but it was worse than we thought, and the ideas we have to improve it don’t seem to be making progress. Will Bitcoin be censorship resistant in a decade or will censorship be the norm with one or two pools deciding what enters the chain.

* With ACINQ pulling out of the US they’re signaling they don’t think it’s worth the risk. With few LSP alternatives in the US today will noncustodial lightning make it in the world’s biggest market?

It’s important to keep building but it’s also important to keep an eye on the biggest problems - best to work on the biggest problems in Bitcoin to maximize the chance it’s still a useful system with properties we’d be proud of in another decade.

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Discussion

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Brian 1y ago

Non custodial lightning is pretty great on Cashapp and strike if you bend the knee to kyc

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1F52B 1y ago

Surely that’s custodial Lightning?

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Brian 1y ago

Yea for sure. Disregard my comment I need a nap

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1F52B 1y ago

Haha tbf “non-custodial” being the same thing as “self custody” is confusing

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Leo Wandersleb 1y ago

Non-custodial should never have been a word. Who has custody over the funds? Nobody. Ok, I get it. Here's a non-custodial wallet: https://mempool.space/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE

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₿logging₿itcoin 1y ago

I use them both, but we seem to be getting closer to a "papers please" kind of world.

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graffiti 1y ago

What happens when the problem is the people, not the software?

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Matt Corallo 1y ago

Vote

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graffiti 1y ago

How crypto-anarchy of you to say that.

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Matt Corallo 1y ago

For the non-custodial lightning case you kinda need a fixed counterparty, so your options are move or vote. For other use cases of bitcoin this does not apply (but also vote anyway, it doesn’t hurt).

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graffiti 1y ago

I always thought the LSP model was a bad idea.

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Matt Corallo 1y ago

It’s that or custodial, so it seems much better 🤷‍♂️

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graffiti 1y ago

I use lightning without an LSP, and it works just fine. People just have to use their brain.

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RebelOfBabylon 1y ago

I like to think I'm pretty smart. I've had a very hard time running my own LN node. Starting with raspibolt.org my node froze up without me noticing and all my channels were force closed.

Tried again with a small lenovo thinkstation, my ssd Mount didn't persist after restarts, didn't notice for almost a year, again channels are force closed.

I can hear the "skill issue" in the distance. But the truth is running a LN node is hard. Even without the sys admin problems, I never figured out who I should open channels to, how much in those channels to be a good peer on the network. Tbh, I just don't have the time or interest in running a routing node. I much prefer the LSP model.

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graffiti 1y ago

I use this to find a channel to open with https://bolt.observer/explorer/

The only differences between you and I, is that you gave up where I didn't.

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Matt Corallo 1y ago

Sadly running a lightning routing node is not the same as an LSP, and more routing nodes doesn’t solve the LSP problem.

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graffiti 1y ago

You are right. If I want centralization within the lightning network, then I want an LSP.

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kreyszig 1y ago

So is it only the Phoenix app that won't be available on the app stores in the US, or is it the whole ACINQ node going away?

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spore 1y ago

is the LSP problem similar to the centralized miner problem in that the bigger operators are more likely to get pinched, and then Bitcoin evolves giving better opportunities to smaller operators.

it's not that hard to spin up a node, open some channels, and fedimints on the way it's a heck of an open source tool kit.

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Adeptus 1y ago

A French company pulling out of the US?

I'm shocked I tell you.

Wax apoplectic all you want. This is the next phase and the pressure will increase.

This is a reason for adaptation not despair.

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remyers 1y ago

It is not reasonable to expect a small group of individuals developing critical Lightning technology to put themselves at risk of criminal charges from the global hedgemon. Better to avoid conflict for now and continue the mission to develop the technology. Once the LSP model has matured I can imagine an end game where a thousand small LSPs bloom. That's how we fight back. "Let us proceed together apace."

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Matt Corallo 1y ago

In the mean time, the Phoenix decision was perfectly rational, whether we agree with their legal analysis or not.

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Beefy 1y ago

Folks who care will run nodes and other sovereign tech. Folks who don't care will be herded into their Panopticon.

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Common Sense 1y ago

It definitely has a shot. Regardless, it’s our best shot, so it’s worth taking. “If something's important enough, you should try. Even if - the probable outcome is failure.”

Thanks for all your hard work in improving, advocating for and criticizing Bitcoin. You are very much appreciated 🫶