thoughts? 
Discussion
Kinda agree, it’s very reckless at this time with nodes going down all the time, connectivity issues, protocol incompatibilities, channels closing for no reason, transactions hanging for no obvious reasons, etc.
🐶🐾🫡
I don’t know. Why is it not usable by normal people? You Select or scan an address and send. What’s the problem on the front end?
The onboarding into lightning (to send) is the harder part but apps like cash app make it easier.
At the same time I highly doubt lightning is what Satoshi envisioned for bitcoin.
I tend to disagree, when he says that it will never…it’s still early and with so many bright minds in the space things will change, evolve, improve.
Maybe it doesn’t go as a fast as wanted.
Is there anyone working on Lightning that loves it? As a non-technical person, I've only ever heard people complaining about how janky it is and difficult to work with.
That’s a very good question.
I see that there are communities of passionate individuals trying to do their parts.
In Japan, there’s the Diamond Hands community for ex.
Nevertheless, I’m not a dev so can’t speak for them.
Is this higher time preference talking? Or seeing reality?
I can’t say I have enough expertise to have a great opinion.
But as a pleb trying to figure out various aspect to running #bitcoin I see potential in #lightning but can also see it’s still fairly new.
I appreciated what I was able to absorb at the #lightningsummit.
nostr:npub1e0z776cpe0gllgktjk54fuzv8pdfxmq6smsmh8xd7t8s7n474n9smk0txy nostr:npub128a25achgxk429gwuwy7tgrwh44z5s42js2260cxdstk7tpxv9ds497erh nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv nostr:npub1u8lnhlw5usp3t9vmpz60ejpyt649z33hu82wc2hpv6m5xdqmuxhs46turz nostr:npub16fhh3ev4gytmt3jn3gkkez9z99kxtspcwupen4cxn2tcym4sd22surn62p nostr:npub139nl9yxvwayl60fr97m3zrq9md6x5v0uup344mkyuyg6mzlusyxs4zkwf4 nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx
I’d appreciate to hear theirs and other #devs and #builders thoughts.
Not entirely wrong. Lightning gives us scaling by making it so not every payment needs to happen on chain and be broadcast to everyone. What it doesn't solve is that there still isn't enough block space for every person on the planet to own their own utxo. We need something like covenants to help solve that problem (CTV, APO, etc)
if you want to be a sovereign individual on the LN there’s definitely still time but that won’t always be the case
could you elaborate on this notion a bit? if you don't mind my asking... 🧐🤔
That would depends on how you define 'lightning usage'
If nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 meant having your own LN node, managing your own channels and liquidity and having enough Bitcoin to afford the channel opening / closing costs, then yes. LN is very limited and there's no way we can scale the usage to everybody.
But if we are talking about financial services based on LN infrastructure then I think it can be done, but that would be classified as L3, further removed from the security and immutability of the base chain. This is how I see the space moving towards, Lightning nodes are banks, trustless banks.
Even with a liquidity provider service to provide liquidity to people trying to save on lightning, splicing new funds into the channel will eventually become cost prohibitive. I think mints are in our future, hopefully we can get that tech filtered down to something local communities can run.
What is lightning?
Probably true. Doesn't mean we need Drivechains though. We are also getting ahead of ourselves somewhat with arguments about security budget, blocksize limitations tail emissions, limitations of LN etc. It's working fine today, will work fine to onboard a few more hundred million, and yes, will likely bit scaling issues in the future, which means we have time to discuss, scope, test and get consensus on ways we might address that at or just before the time it becomes an actual real world problem.
Gay.
Curious if nostr:npub1sn0wdenkukak0d9dfczzeacvhkrgz92ak56egt7vdgzn8pv2wfqqhrjdv9 wants to expand his recent note on the topic
nostr:note1lsdft8wn8m7uv63l8nj7du4p5hmchtfdcrx8dl9v523720gju60q89cafu
When Coinbase and Binance realize they can sell/rent lightning node hardware to people to set up at homes and businesses, just like the internet companies do with routers. And by that lock them to their exchanges, just like internet companies do. Money will start flowing, and nothing will stop capitalism when it finds a revenue stream.
The only intelligent commentary I can make is that we need to have good alternative scaling solutions.
common people will happy using LN for spending
running LN active node - not a layman job
90% of node runner are techies
I’m not a techy. I run a lightning and a bitcoin node. Opening channels is a breeze. Closing them in the past had been somewhat glitchy. No problems recently however. I use it regularly for small payments in and out of games I play with my regular Lightning wallet. Also use CashApp for some larger payments. I think Tipping, Usage payments, and Micro Payments is where Lightning will really shine.
There seems to be a lot of people that misunderstand fiatjaf, using lightning custodially isnt using it "directly". WoS has served me great but its someone elses database and i ask them to kindly send payments.
remind me in 5 years
I think it's cool that normal people can even access and tinker with these parts of a payment network⚡️
There is room for both improvements and other alternative networks 👾👾👾
Also, I'd say we have made some wrong comparisons as argued back in my very first post in here:
nostr:note1xm0tjtnknnw65tj4gxlaxrmqzdxcxgmz3697uv06m63pcyfwda8qkq0vmd
I thought I was a normal person, using lightning as a settlement network. I am disappointed to find out I’m not normal and lightning is supposed to do more.
See now this is the kind of group talk / discussion I value on #nostr 🫶
everyone knows where the mall is, but mall does not know where the people visiting it is.
p2p systems have this issue that the more decentralized something is, the more difficult it is for peers to find each other.
blockchain is excellent, because everyone can find the blockchain.
I think he's right, but that doesn't make lightning a failure.