It gets extra tiresome when I see Bitcoiners do it
Discussion
Call for government intervention I mean
Really been sad to see the volume of bitcoiners who are tricked into the political bullshit. Even on nostr. Was hoping this place would be a better filter.
I'm under the assumption that bitcoiners will be more willing to change their mind than other folks. Especially folks who have realised that things would be much different on a bitcoin standard.
This is the most disappointing thing to me
It probably comes from the pov that fiat is bad but other forms of government intervention is okay
Maybe when one realises that the latter is as bad as fiat, he might change his mind?
I think some people cannot wrap their heads around a world without interventions to their perceived problems.
After groking how much central planning and interventions destroy markets and societies I’ve noticed most people will complain about whatever issue they’re fixated on then quickly follow it up with some form of “they should do x to fix it”.
It’s completely ingrained in people (at least who I know) that there is a quick top down solution for every problem.
I think it’s because they’ve been indoctrinated by government schools. It’s so ingrained in them that democracy and retarded concepts like checks and balances are necessary for freedom. They never questioned those ideas and when you bring it up, they think you’re anti American or some shit. What does it even mean to be American? You were born in a certain location and are ruled by the tyrants of that area. Is that what you’re proud of?
GREATEST CUNTRY ON EARTH BOY 🇺🇸
I agree MAHDOOD. There is a strong and systematic effort (from birth) to create compliant NPCs who won’t resist their subjugation. It works quite well… and it happens in almost every country I’m sure.
I see some of these shithole incorporated “cities” in the U.S. around where I live and I just die laughing to myself about how people are loyal to that dumb little made up jurisdiction. It’s like 3 Starbucks, one of each of the big 8 fast food joints, a few chain grocery stores, a handful of corporate banks, 9 chain gas stations, some cops, some tweakers, and strips malls full of floundering small businesses. Of course a planet fitness (that I go to). It’s absolutely insane to have an allegiance to that kind of place.
That’s capitalism man. Don’t forget the mall where people are buying shit they can’t afford on credit cards with high interest rates 😂
Yes, that's right. Imagine pleading allegiance to the flag of Walmart every morning in school...that's the same thing we grew up doing in my day. I was statist and believed in public education and elections (etc., ad infinitum) until I was in my late forties 😬
I spent my entire young life identifying as a DFL-er (unique to MN) and then my thirties as a conservative, and from 2011 until 2017 I had no idea what I was, just wanted no part of it. I guess that was when I found libertarian twitter, and lots of those folks started to annoy the crap out of me, and that pipeline to anarchism (for me) is short unless you're [redacted].
Hell of a journey beejay.
I was raised by an ex marine who wholeheartedly believes the American / nation state propaganda. But for some reason I never internalized it.
After high school I went to a top 20 U.S. public college and majored in business. Another statist indoctrination program, but I just always felt like a lot of what I was being taught was BS.
I was reading guys like Noam Chomsky, Michael Parentti and Chris hedges. I think learning about a more realistic version of US history from people outside the system made me realize how insanely fucked up governments really were. Fully subverted the temptation to be a statist cuck. Still hadn’t been introduced to anarchism, Austrian Econ or Bitcoin though.
Years later after living and practicing Agorism and a lot of tenets of anarchism without ever having been formally introduced to the ideas, I found Bitcoin. From there everything coalesced.
Yes, it does seem surprising how you turned out with such an upbringing 😄
Oh, and...
All the times I mentioned I was liberal until I wasn't anymore, I was trying to build my own small business... then I learned about my new income taxes lol. I am sure you know what happened next.
Hahaha the classic socialist turned capitalist story
Y'all live and grew up in a much more free country than mine 😂
But I was surrounded by and grew up in a subculture that values property rights and entrepreneurship quite a lot. That + Bitcoin + the internet played a big role in my de-programming.
Yeah the process of starting a business and going through a calendar year will radicalize anyone. All the red tape and the state, municipal and federal taxes at the end of the year. Infuriating and demoralizing.
I was growing weed in college and loved it so after graduation I doubled down and built it into a cool little boutique business. But the state I was in legalized cannabis shortly thereafter and if you didn’t have a million dollars in capital you couldn’t go legal, so I went full black. Did that for a long while and felt a sense of pride in not bending the knee or contributing to The State’s insanity.
I get so fucking irritated when I think about shit like this and all the potential businesses that can never start up because of the fucking parasite class
Took me decades to learn you gotta go gray/black flag
Stay small and independent, otherwise, the bigger your biz gets, the more you are tied to contributing to the evils of the tyrannical, blood-soaked, kidf***ing, extorting, fat, fake, and gay state.
Bro you're just a wee baby 😊
When I was just out of college, it was 1993, and Clinton supposedly didn't inhale 😅
Damn I haven’t heard about Chris Hedges in yearsssss. That guy is intense and really made me look at the world differently.
pledging* not pleading wtf is even my keyboard
Sadly, some people have to get hurt by the state to realize just how fucked it all is.
Praxeology suggests we're stuck with the state aparatus.
Bitcoiners rooting for an outcome doesn't mean they're pro government intervention.
There's a difference there.
Well, they inadvertently give room for interventionism by being too focused on ends rather than means.
Be specific?
Calling for shitcoins to be classified as securities and encouraging the govt to go after them, setting precedent for accumulating reserves through asset forfeitures, shilling tether.
We're stuck with the state, yes.
But none of these will help us get unstuck.
Calling for consistency is how I see what you're alluding to.
Their premise, either call founder led sales of securities a security or get rid of all the laws for everyone.
The government already set a precedent for accumulating reserves through assets forfeiture...wake up! GM.
They got those coins ages ago, why didn't they sell?
I think the interesting conversation is to predict how the state aparatus will act.
Getting that right or wrong is where you win.
Trying to force your moralistic view onto others or onto the state aparatus is a losing battle.
This is why I don't vote, to keep myself as neutral as possible - this helps me predict outcomes & it's how I've been successful in life.
'Forcing' a moralistic view is something one does when they call for the state to intervene where they are not supposed to.
That's a harsh word to use for what we do when we have online conversations with the goal of convincing those we talk to.
What we are doing is calling for less government. Which means less force by default. I don't want the state apparatus to take a moral ground on anything. I actually don't want the state apparatus to do anything. That's where I'm coming from.
I agree with your wants, I have the same wishes.
Are they utopic? Probably.
Lobbying government is part of the process humans go through with respect to the state aparatus.
I find it hard to imagine people stopping to do this, even the ones who agree with you on shrinking government intervention.
Re: If someone feels the state aparatus is here to stay, they might fall into the purview of lobbying it to accomplish their bidding.
A tragedy of the commons type scenario if you will.
Lobbying them to stop lobbying is quite obviously pushing your moralistic view onto them.
I find this to be a waste of time, as the response will be them pushing their moralistic view onto you.
Stay neutral & observe - in essence, judge less.
You're describing reality as it is. I hear what you're saying. You're saying it's simply how things are and want me to face it. I am with you there.
But I do believe there are people who truly care about freedom in its true sense, so it's very important to keep talking about what ought to be.