Subnostr

You don't have to stack Monero. You can just use it as superior p2p digital cash.

Until yet another inflation bug appears.

Bitcoin can be just as private with LN, payjoin and interactive, anonymised coinjoins cryptonote protocol is less private than those things all being used routinely. MuSig2 literally could be used to do RingCT style mixing.

Montero only has this popularity on the darkweb because it automates that payment mixing.

So few arrests anyhow from chain analysis, which suggests even bitcoin is mostly secure against the $5 wrench attack.

Probably because all darkweb bitcoin transactions are using Tor. Tor alone stops geolocating spending keys...

Montero can't do a lightning network. It's just a matter of time until LN is easily anonymous, and interactive payjoins are easy.

Montero can't be audited properly. All zkp chains will also have this problem. UTXO is Goldilocks. Auditable, but potentially private with VPN and interactive payjoins.

Montero can't be audited. Did I mention that?

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Discussion

m4dire0701 2y ago

But what is the point of audit a coin which the purpose is being complete anonymous? 🤔

Auditing means that government can track all your transactions in a transparent blockchain

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Wow, in an extremely rare case of an inflation bug you lost a few bucks in your wallet while gaining superior privacy, faster and cheaper txs. While your real saving is in Bitcoin... Big deal. The risk/reward for losing a few bucks it nothing.

No Bitcoin can't be private. It's a public ledger. Any form of coinjoin is obfuscation not privacy, all data is still completely available to save and parse in the future with new data and techniques. And anything built on L2 loses security garuntees of on chain plus othe trade offs.

You don't seem to understand Monero. The "mixing" part is only one part of it's tech for the sender. It completely hides amounts using ZK proofs (pedersen commitments) and recievers not available on the blockchain at all.

"One of these 16 signers sent $[?] to [?]"

A crypto millionaire was just recently chopped into pieces and you're telling me $5 wrench attacks are rare. It happens often enough:

https://github.com/jlopp/physical-bitcoin-attacks/blob/master/README.md

The "can't be audited" FUD is stupid. You know why? Because exactly 100% of bitcoiners run a node and call it a day. Exactly like Monero. No Bitcoiner is taking advantage of it's transparency/simple math and scrutinizing the whole blockchain to make sure everything is correct.

AND an exploited inflation bug would be catastrophic if it happened to either Bitcoin or Monero. Once it happens it is too late. You can't undo it without hurting users in either case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meDkx6gRPMg&t=497s

Loki 2y ago

LN with hidden service hosting is more private than Monero.

No trace of the transactions ever get published. It is impossible to discover what payments happened between channel open and close.

Arguments about inflationary payment instruments is irrelevant. You simply wouldn't stack an asset that decays like food. And no sane society has ever existed where such perishable money was continued to be used once better, durables were available.

Tobacco is money in prison. But money is mostly banned in prisons.

Monero only adds obfuscation. Ring signatures are not encryption. They are not conceptually distant from utxo and coin join. There is no homomorphic encrypted visible utxo sizes.

Lightning on a mixnet, however, is private, without compromising supply auditability.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Again, you are strawmanning.

If your thesis is Monero "will decay like food" you don't have to stack Monero long term. You can continue saving in Bitcoin if you wish. It is not binary. There are major differences/trade offs between LN and Bitcoin on chain otherwise you would keep all your Bitcoin on LN.

Not only that, but people stack all sorts of things that decay in the real world. No one on the planet keeps 100% of everything they own in perfectly un-decaying assets. I'm sure you also own many things that decay for different value or utility besides savings (vehicle, food, cash, electronics).

You are very misinformed about Monero. You could do a quick search and find out in a few seconds that is not true. You are right that ring sigs are only obfuscation. You are wrong that it is the only thing Monero uses.

1) Ring signatures are ONLY for the sender. (and it is by default unlike Bitcoin coinjoins)

2) Confidential transactions (ZK proofs) hide amounts completely

3) Stealth addresses hide recievers completely

For privacy:

Monero >>> LN

1) You see virtually 0% Darknet Market adoption of Lightning where the lives of people hang on the line.

2) Even though there exists possibility of some privacy on LN with much hassle - How does 90% of everyone use it? Custodially with things like WoS (no privacy from custodian). The remainder use something like Phoenix for self custody (no privacy from ACINQ) https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix

3) Search any technical paper and you will find that Lightning was not built around privacy and has many problems. It's focus is quick off chain payments with privacy as an afterthought or happy coincidence. Here are a few links.

https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook/blob/develop/16_security_privacy_ln.asciidoc#attacks-on-lightning

https://lightningprivacy.com/en/introduction

https://abytesjourney.com/lightning-privacy/

Loki 2y ago

Also, there is a node in my house. It cost about usd$200. Without ppl running the now 20k+ nodes there was no uasf to segwit.

I am not running my own currently, but I am building a system that depends on secure private access to a chain client to run lightning nodes, how the system monetise service delivery.

My $1000 budget 2021 model gaming laptop syncs the whole chain in under 6 hours running bitcoin core.

I suggest you update yourself on the state of the competitor's offerings. And yes I was mining Monero a lot last bull market 2017. I studied how cryptonote works.

The dark web will go to lightning within 5 years and Monero will be history.

Disturbia 2y ago

i read all the comment above.

despite loving LN so much and enjoy the privacy it has given me, i agree with one clear thing, you cant run a highly private LN transaction unless you run your own node or complicatedly route it through private nodes.

monero on the other hand can readily being used.

monero is time tested, unlike its privacy coin counterparts like zcash or secret network (but which has shown evidence of compromised).

in the privacy field, it is indeed the most senior

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

I find it hard to believe you were involvded with Monero in any serious sense if you think the only privacy tech Monero uses are ring sigs.