Discussion
This 👆🏾
Facts
The number of “capable” people I’ve heard say they did, now they don’t etc etc supports this meme.
why do they?
You are more likely to lose sats running a node you don't know how to properly maintain than using a custodian.
People are running LN on toy computers running off SD cards that fail, with storage that isn't replicated, all on systems they aren't familiar with.
I've been using Linux for decades, and some aspects of my LN node still keep me up at night. What do these people that aren't devops experts do when their hard drive crashes, or some random service stops working, or their node partners crush them with force-closures fees?
Sorry, but running a full-ass lightning node is not for normies. Run a mobile node that handles most of the shit for you.
what about a personal private node with just a couple of channels for inbound and outbound?
not a public routing node. something you run for personal payments on umbrel for example andmanager from a wallet like Zeus?
I guess there's a substantial difference between personal private nodes and routing nodes?
The number of channels has nothing to do with the complexity of keeping a Linux system running. The reality is most non-sysadmin people try, get lost or burnt out on maintaining it, then give up.
I don't see why these users wouldn't use something like Phoenix (aside from them not working in the US anymore, ofc)
Yep, bingo.
These seems to be the gist
can you explain the reasoning? why?
Unlike a bitcoin node it requires constant maintenance and does not offer many benefits to plebs with small channels versus the time, effort/energy, and financial investment it takes in locking up sats in lightning channels. It’s also a massive rabbit hole of new learning full of new issues and headaches to think about beyond just securing a stack in cold storage.
Sorry just getting back to this thread. I agree with the other answers you got. To summarize my reasoning, there is too much risk and cost associated with doing so for the average person. Once someone understands lightning then a self-custodial wallet like Breez or Phoenix is a good option for some things. Or if you run a business then it might make sense to take on the cost and risk of running a full node for processing payments. But for the casual user of Lightning who just needs to make and receive payments, you are likely to lose more funds maintaining the node than you would if a custodial wallet rugged you.
All that said, it’s a great way to learn more about Bitcoin, which is why I used to run one and why it’s not necessarily a bad idea if someone does it on a small scale for the learning. Just be prepared to lose money 😂
thank you
My node stopped, over my skill set to fix, and waiting until channels close. Hope fee are low when it happens
i guess i am just waiting to be fucked somehow cuz im still sitting here thinking its not hard at all. 🤷
I think there’s a difference between running LND and running something like Mutiny Wallet. I don’t think the average user should be running LND. But something like Zeus or Mutiny for everyone is awesome. My understanding is that both Zeus and Mutiny run a node in their wallet software.
Yes they are nodes on your mobile denies and no, not everyone should run one. They are still too complicated and too costly for the average user.
I’ll agree that there are some costs that aren’t always clear with opening the channels. Hopefully these wallets will continue to improve that experience. Federations and ecash might help as well if the user is ok with the trade offs in custody. But I guess that feeds into your argument that they are too complicated if you are having to understand that.