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“I still do not believe that you can claim the results as valid unless it’s a double blind protocol.”

And I don’t think you can justify this assertion. What are you isolating by this? Nothing.

I told you I had only uneducated expectations going into the blind trials and the results were 100% correct, and those 100% correct results contradicted my, at the time, ignorant expectations.

That’s functionally a blind trial. There is nothing to be gained from the double blind trials you are talking about.

This entire conversation has been a shit show and it’s because you don’t know how to investigate something respectfully.

wymike 1mo ago

“What are you isolating by this?”

Removal of the holder being able to have an influence on the results.

There is not way to scientifically prove that you had no knowledge of what the results would / should be. If this is a real effect that is not caused by any influence of the holder it will still happen in a double blind test. If you really want to know if the effect is real and not caused in any way by you holding the pendulum this is the gold standard of proving it.

“This entire conversation has been a shit show and it’s because you don’t know how to investigate something respectfully.”

I could say the same about you refusing to accept challenges to your methodology.

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Discussion

RedTailHawk 1mo ago

I see, so we're back to asshole mode. In other words, I'm a liar. GFY.

wymike 1mo ago

I haven’t called you a liar or any other name for that fact.

You have called me an asshole multiple times.

I have not personally attacked you and have kept my arguments focused on your methodology. If you can’t make a distinction between the two that is a you problem and not on me.

You have attacked me personally when you didn’t like what I had to say.

I apologised for my bluntness of my initial criticisms and engaged on your terms.

I asked questions as you requested I did but wasn’t satisfied with the answers you were able to provide.

I’m simply trying to point out to you that to scientifically prove the effect you are claiming your methodology requires modification.

If you don’t care about having a defendable protocol then ignore me and carry on but anyone who understands the scientific method is going to accept your results.

Go ahead and call me an asshole again if it makes you feel better.

ArkonaFan 1mo ago

If you wish to argue for the sake of arguing, he will entertain you until all that follow his posts get tired of it. Otherwise if you are at all intrigued by the premise of what he is talking about look to the source. He is like someone who learned to do multiplication and is trying to share it. Let his enthusiasm excite but look to the Greek who wrote the laws of mathematics for proof. (Egyptian architect Dr. Ibrahim Karim Biogeometry)

PS I can demonstrate far more as I’ve actively used the principle in daily life for a year + for practical purposes. I will Not attempt to prove it as that has already been done by more scientifically trained individuals.

RedTailHawk 1mo ago

Actually I already muted wymike after he essentially called me a liar.

Muted BushRat too

ArkonaFan 1mo ago

That’s fine, I have no personal beef with them and am excited to share Biogeometry with those interested regardless.

RedTailHawk 1mo ago

That's fine, I didn't ask about any of that though. I was just correcting your presumptuous former post in which you acted like you could predict how I would behave. I look forward to the day when you will stop thinking you have me in a box.

wymike 1mo ago

Dare I ask what practical purposes or will that also make me an asshole?

ArkonaFan 1mo ago

Absolutely! The method in question can be tuned to various frequencies and I personally use it in energy healing and testing what I consume. The creator of Biogeometry has participated in medical trials in Egypt as well as agricultural experiments and more.

wymike 1mo ago

1) I did a bit of reading on Dr. Karim. While there does appear to be some anecdotal evidence I could not find any rigorous studies that support his hypothesis. If you know of any please share them.

2) I have an immediate family member who trained as a raiki master. They told me point blank there was no point in giving me a treatment because I did not believe that it would work. This is a significant red flag for me since if it only works because I believe then it’s psychosomatic and not, as the raiki practitioners claim, them doing something with energy.

Sorry if my differing life experiences and opposing view points are making me an asshole again.

ArkonaFan 1mo ago

He takes things personally, I don’t.

1)I have not looked for outside material on him. From his former student and American teacher of his system I’ve learned a bit. https://www.biogeometry.ca/biogeometry-hepatitis-c-research I’m sure independent sources could be found.

2.) I don’t know what to say about your family member. I took my first Reiki class less than 2 years ago. I don’t know if they are coping for not being proficient or what. You do not have to believe in it to work. I was taught, and karmically it’s better, to ask for the recipients permission. I’ve not seen that even suggested in any of the handful of healing systems I’ve learned about.

3.) At the time of my taking that class I had not ever experienced anything I knew to be “supernatural”. I now have a conceptual model that has many forces beyond the physical plane but nothing supernatural. So now I daily do energy healing and exploration of nonphysical phenomena. From checking which food is the most strengthening to doing Fung Shue by directly perceiving those elements and balancing them. Mostly still needing the pendulum like a magnifying glass as the perceptions are mostly quite feint.

RedTailHawk 1mo ago

Again, wrong. It's not personal. It's called dealing with resistance in pursuit of a noble goal.

There are people, including many innocents, suffering and dying in this world because of egotistical charlatans masquerading as pious. People claim adherence to traditions that espouse the Golden Rule, yet almost no one gets the Golden Rule, including you.

Every religion teaches a variation of the Golden Rule which tells us that it's important and humans suck at it. If you haven't had an enlightenment experience, the easiest thing to point to is a lack of adherence to the Golden Rule.

As for the requirement of belief, science spends billions of dollars every year controlling for this crazy, inexplicable phenomenon called the Placebo Effect. It's almost like belief matters or something...

wymike 1mo ago

Belief does matter, the human brain is extremely powerful. We try to control for it to understand what is causing the effect.

ArkonaFan 1mo ago

For both of you I guess. I never said it didn’t matter. I said it was Not a Requirement for Reiki to work. Belief may correspond to lack of resistance to the treatment. It can indicate that a person is karmically in a position to receive. It can indicate that the person is going to unconsciously contribute to the effect themselves. Belief is not a required component for Reiki.

RedTailHawk 1mo ago

Yeah. I wasn't trying to correct you on that. I've experienced Reiki from a position of neutral belief and that experience very much pushed me into the "Reiki is legit" camp.

I brought up the Placebo effect because wymike keeps banging the captain scientist drum pretty hard and seems to think that belief is not a valid variable which is a demonstrably absurd position to hold.

RedTailHawk 1mo ago

No, that doesn't make you an asshole. That's a positive question to ask, not a negative one.