Nostr Web Client

Layer 2 is for spending.

Layer 1 is for storing.

Layer 2 doesn’t have to be non custodial; this is an anti-consumer Bitcoin Cult Narrative that doesn’t take practicality or Bitcoins future into account.

The Cult doesn’t care about utility for ordinary users; all they care about is the narrative on paper in specifications.

Wallet of Satoshi is growing fast and is super reliable, serving the consumer brilliantly. Users needing long term storage can leverage other tools that are non custodial.

Solving people’s problems is key; they need both to spend AND to store. Specifications on paper are not the way to judge the benefits of designs for consumers; fulfilling the needs of real people is the actual test.

And Wallet of Satoshi is passing that test. BIGLY.

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Discussion

Gigi 2y ago 💬 6

Love Beautyon, always loved Beautyon, but I love the fact that he can't meaningfully block me on #nostr even more.

nostr:nevent1qqstmwxfc7mcuj4e9estjf6430u6l70kyfa3xu02rkcug5q72wqeh2cpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qccsfkkfk46jsjtn80cup0vjn98slkheqd65t36tut822kddvdcxqxpqqqqqqzn2tvhz

Beautyon 2y ago

Why do you need to read what I have to say?

Louferlou 2y ago

Baddest take I’ve ever heard from you. Don’t you understand that relying on third parties holding funds for customers leads to KYC and mass surveillance like in the traditional system ?

We absolutely need to have a reliable and user friendly way to use layer 2 in a non custodial way or you reproduce the exact same problem that gold had one century ago. It’s to easily spend around the world that gold was captured by intermediaries and “paperized”, not because people were afraid of storing their gold.

Beautyon 2y ago

You are a Bitcoin Cult member, reciting your cult mantras perfectly.

Who is “we”?

You don’t understand how businesses develop, and your infantile zeal to prove you’re a good, compliant member of the cult, are willing to starve WoS of cash so that they have no chance of improving.

I, on the other hand, understand how incredibly hard it is to do what WoS do, and I understand that their tool and development is not static. In this window on their development they are doing things one way, and that can change.

Also there are other factors that make WoS good for consumers getting small amounts of Bitcoin. IT ALWAYS WORKS. People like you don’t take into account the position of the Normie, who is frightened of Bitcoin. If they get “No route to host / no channel” when trying to get $5, this is a killer for getting people on to Bitcoin.

You also have very little imagination (obviously). Let me try to help.

Imagine that there are a billion people using WoS just as it is today, with the maximum they keep on it at any time being $25. In that scenario, it is very unlikely that they will be subjected to a state attack for a user base that on average has a pittance on display.

That’s just one imaginary scenario where WoS can stay the same and there be no attack because it’s literally not worth it.

And there are other wallets on the market that only KYC you if you have “too much money” so this idea is not as far fetched as you might think.

Your problem is that you’re serving yourself and your personal delusions only. You’re not interested in bringing people to Bitcoin, and for you it’s all a Cult and a big game. That’s fine. Everyone is free to think what they like and act on it.

You will not, and cannot stop WoS. They’re going to continue to grow and improve, and spread globally. That’s a good thing in the short and long run, whether you understand it or not.

Louferlou 2y ago

Lmao you are so pedantic and full of yourself 😂

“We” is humanity or mankind or whatever is the good english world, we is anyone who wants to use Bitcoin.

It seems that you don’t understand anything either.

I’m nos against WoS, anyone can do what they want and I myself use it with Blink when I need more convenience. Basically I topup my custodial wallet with my non custodial one FOR NO FEES.

And this is where you don’t get it (obviously). Without reliable, and with good enough ux self custody solutions on L2, on your hypothetical scenario of 1 billion users using WoS (ridiculous by the way cause in that case you don’t even need LN as almost all tx would go through WoS), fees on the main chain would be high, much higher than today.

It means that Bitcoin tx would have to go through LN, people would get paid with LN, grocery stores would get paid with LN, and then pay their salaries with it obviously etc…

It’s not 25USD we are talking about, it’s basically your checking account, the one you use to feed your family, travel, buy things. If this is controlled by the state and you want to escape it, it’s not possible with 50 USD/tx or more on the main chain. So basically your saving account is almost useless, if your checking account is censored.

I’m no member of a cult, stop it with that you look like a woke calling everybody fascist for no reason because you disagree. I’m pro selfcustoy and among those who think that if you doesn’t have the choice to opt-out easily of a custodial service, then it’s fiat world again and this is so obvious dude, really.

L2 self custody is as important as L1 selfcustofy in a hypothetical hyperbitcoinzed world. If I’m a member of the laser eyes cult like you (and your friends ?) Udi Paul and Eric like to call people who think like me, let me tell you that you are a member of your own cult, the “high time pref and NGU” cult, which is much more pathetic and dangerous.

Jose Sammut 2y ago

Ratio

The Last Satoshi ⚡️ 2y ago

Agree with you 💯%

unknown 2y ago

As long as people know that WoS can rug them at any time for any reason then caveat emptor. As old as time, you get your hand burnt on the stove a couple of times and then look for more secure methods of spending bitcoin.

What's wrong with Phoenix (now with splicing) connected to your own electrum? UX is on par with WoS and if they do choose to not service you at any time in the future you can easily move funds on chain. Best of both worlds imo.

Beautyon 2y ago 💬 2

Unfortunately, you’re thinking from inside the Bitcoin Cult Bubble, and are not interested in solving anyone’s problems other than your own.

Features are a spectrum; normal people are not interested in Cult Lingo, “Rugged”, “$5 Wrench” blah blah blah. If you spent time (which Bitcoin Cult members refuse to do) interacting with normal people, and we’re in the business of supplying Lighting to them, you would know why WoS is extraordinary.

But we don’t live in that world. The Bitcoin Cult Echo Chamber is hell bent on making Bitcoin unusable for Consumers, and they don’t have the wherewithal to midwife Hyperbitcoinization alone.

Several products and services are coming however that are dedicated to the new category, “Consumer Bitcoin”, and the landscape will be changed forever after they’ve launched. This is an absolute prerequisite to Hyperbitcoinization, and WoS is a good example of the sort of UX you can and should expect.

Will people still be able to use the tools they love, like Electrum? Of course; but there will be billions that will never use it, and they will all use Bitcoin on other people’s terms, whether you like it or not.

And yes, that’s a good thing!

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

WoS is the antithesis of Bitcoin. You are not using Bitcoin you are using an IOU on WoS centralized ledger. Affinity scam.

"the main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required"

Why not use Paypal at that point? More convenient and bigger network effect. Have you ever thought that if a custodial closed source app is necessary to get people to use lightning, maybe lightning itself sucks...maybe they are not ready for Bitcoin either.

Beautyon 2y ago

BLESSINGS OF THE CULT, BLESSINGS OF SATOSHI. THOU ART A SUBJECT IF THE CHAIN, CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF SATOSHI, BY THE CHAIN, FOR THE CHAIN. WORK HARD, AVOID ACCIDENTS AND BOW TO SATOSHI. v

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

You really showed that strawman a lesson.

You're in awe of custodial and permissioned solutions. How novel and revolutionary! Much wow! If that is your goal...then what was the point to any of this?

Speaking of cults: You're going full circle and it is sad and disappointing to watch you "hyperbitcoinization" "mass consumer adoption" types. You throw away the most critical aspects that make Bitcoin unique to begin with for mass appeal. Nothing is really special about Bitcoin without self custody and permissionlessness.

Beautyon 2y ago

You are a Brainwashed Cult Member. Many such cases. Your class will always exist. This is the world we live in!

rand0mguest2 2y ago 💬 2

You have triggered the orange pillers beautyon. 😂 they will never get it but it doesn’t matter

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago 💬 19

Namecalling is all you have so far, didn't address a single thing, and complete projection. Nice.

BitcoinSandy 2y ago

He loves to wind up 🤷‍♂️. It’s not cultist to find solutions that are permission-less and non custodial. It’s important to have a passionate core striving to find this. Of course there will be mass adoption custodial products but it’s not the way in a world where centralisation and control is growing. Bitcoin was meant to give people self sovereignty, to have savings and to spend as they choose. It’s not cultist to strive for that 🤙

BitcoinSandy 2y ago

What is amusing with the cultist accusations is that Beautyon blocked so many on Twitter who didn’t agree with him, a true sign of a cultist. And he can’t on Nostr . Although I guarantee his mute list will be extensive as a cult thot leader needs no insubordination in his followers 😂

Laser 2y ago

WoS *is* setting the bar for user experience, but does that mean a non custodial spending app, or some new L2 like Ark, can never reach that level of ease while maintaing full user autonomy?

I'm skeptical that this is the case.