This is why we build protocols, not platforms. SimpleXChat wanted a platform the company can control since day 0. The more they developed, the clearer it got that the game wasn't privacy, but control.
They were all the rage when we were developing NIP-17. Many, many people told us to just use their system instead of building our protocol. It looks silly now, but I am glad we didn't follow their way doing business.
Nostr privacy is total shit and nip 17 as well! People shouldn't use DMs on here
Why is it total shit?
Vitor I don't have to repeat this for years and you know the answer. Everything is public and traceable on here.
Then try to break my DMs. Or better. Try to simply figure out who I talk to on NIP 17. No one was able to break it yet. But maybe you know something we don't. Until somebody breaks, NIP 17 DMs over nostr are as good as it gets.
Do you know if most/all clients now use NIP 17 ? Are others still able to see who you DM even if they can’t see the contents? Thanks!
ya I'm curious too 👀
What's wrong with Nostr DM and privacy issues?
nostr:nprofile1qqsyawyrzrttfmv4cmtx5w2m85702kdct7hv3amfrkhagpdf9cz46mgpzemhxue69uhkummnw3ex2mrfw3jhxtn0wfnj7qg6waehxw309ac8junpd45kgtnxd9shg6npvchxxmmd9uq3kamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdehhxarjwpkx2cnn9e3k7mf0aur9gg
The original spec (nip04, still used on Damus and Primal afaik) leaks metadata. Meaning the content is encrypted but others can see who sends messages to who at what time. Nip17 fixes this and is supported by a bunch of clients like Amethyst, key chat, yakihone and others.
Main issue from a user point of view is that there's now multiple specs that are not compatible, so depending on the client people use they might not see DMs from people from the other client. Nip17 is superior in terms of privacy so unfortunate that not all clients support it after all that time.
bbbbbut our LP's need lock-in!!!
Fiat mind virus
This is literally the perfect opportunity for somebody to fork SimpleX to use I2P servers only and make the perfect P2P messaging app.
Waste of time. You can't turn a platform into a protocol. The control is still there.
Is it really a platform when I can run my own SimpleX instance for my family quite fine without ever touching their advertised servers?
But yes, if we could see some of the better design choices in SimpleX that protect metadata on top of a protocol like Nostr and some incentive model to easily plugin severs/encrypted media relays on i2p that would be an instant win of 1M of people interested in the privacy space.
You'd have to start by rewriting it from Haskell into a language that more than three people on the planet can actually read — besides the SimpleX Chat devs and Tim Sweeney 😅
💯
And just like that, most of us can finally stop trying to deal with SimpleX's UX.
It's sad to see them choose the dirty Shitcoin/NFT path, especially because *Bitcoiners* made large donations (including Jack Dorsey IIRC). Such an insult to all of them.
nostr:nprofile1qqs9ajjs5p904ml92evlkayppdpx2n3zdrq6ejnw2wqphxrzmd62swspz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqzrthwden5te0dehhxtnvdakqn96kcz nostr:nprofile1qqs8t4ehcdrjgugzn3zgw6enp53gg2y2gfmekkg69m2d4gwxcpl04acppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0l2sp3z and others :
The stage is all yours 👍
Bye bye SimpleX 👋
Then shitcoinery is the logical next step.
It's why you never should be a maxi.
As things change and new information and agendas become visible we need to change our tools. SimpleX was good while it lasted.
Things change fast and you don't want to stay attached to a glorified vision of the past.
simplex are designing it wrong.
nostr messages are all signed, they only need checking, other than that, identity is ironclad. so this changes how you can do a distributed database if the events are sovereign.
the question is not about whether the events are authentic, but about whether you care to forward them on, or see them in the first place.
nostr can use an eventual consistency consensus that is not probabalistic like pBFT and Nakamoto Consensus relays can produce a consensus mostly by gossiping.
in actual fact, to some extent nostr is already running various kinds of simple, some even retarded, gossip chatter propagation patterns. these aren't a consensus but they are 50% of what you need to make one.
add the actual consensus algorithm that causes nodes to tend towards having the same view of the network and you can rely on having the same answer from a query anywhere that has a subscription to sync what you want to find.
the distinction is huge. it means with a nostr like event protocol you can do arbitrary consensus, not only a single global database view.
i will be demonstrating this in the coming months. first two use cases that it can apply to are a name registry and broadcast automation.
with a consensus running over many nostr relays we can have our own DNS registry system, even, there can be relays that specialise in this registry. when i say "broadcast automation" i mean making it so the sync workers of relays know who wants what so they just push it to them.
it can be so much more powerful and censorship resistant this way. when you use blockchain style single global databases you massively raise the baseline cost of participation. same principle in play why the nakamoto consensus stays decentralised where pBFTs rapidly aggregate into oligarchies of 3-5 individuals who are usually serial blockchain pirates.
The best thing to do is talk about it with #badsimplex we discuss this in the group chat the only place evgeny responds directly to people. If you don't want to go in & get some answers use the tag & spread it because they got no idea in there how disappointed people are. In their own little world this is a success because l3 kve whatever shit secures anonymity in payment & the nft is just to make it so you can't use this outside of Simplex but you could gift it to another person.
Imagine awh your free group just hit your 500MB limit & you don't wana purge it's okay i'll buy your next "voucher" to increase your space. The idea is that it will be more then just a chat app. With channels yup here we go the discord scheme channels each one a different functionality so in the future a group is like a free hosted webpage because channels will give you tje layouts you want for your community.
I said channels should come out first before this otherwise it wouldn't make sense but they need money now to hire people because the development team is only 4 people. Me & others have argued for external payment methods but nope they want to do this eth>voucher>buy your hosting space.
Discord & Guilded started this we are the future of web hosting community building stuff now it's become a model make a chat app or start as one. Expand to channels being different ux & boom you got your new all in one controlled hosting page go upload your satisifed you get to talk & control.
It's crazy ain't it?
Also to on what you said it's not about control.
To most outsiders, Nostr still looks like just another crypto project, essentially Bitcoin over Lightning. The belief that “Bitcoin has already won” is the main argument for keeping Nostr Bitcoin only. While common within the community, to outsiders it’s indistinguishable from the same maximalist rhetoric used by every other altcoin project, each declaring victory in its own echo chamber.
If Nostr wants to break free from that perception and stand apart as a genuine, censorship resistant communications protocol rather than a Bitcoin marketing arm, it should introduce a NIP allowing users to specify which cryptocurrency they are willing to accept. This would let the free market decide value preference, proving that Nostr supports genuine freedom of choice rather than ideological gatekeeping.
Zaps could continue to function seamlessly: each user sets a default currency, and if the recipient supports it, a one tap zap still works as normal.
By embracing this openness, Nostr would gain a powerful network effect advantage over any single coin ecosystem, becoming the neutral communications layer for the entire decentralised economy rather than a subset of it.
right on the money. unfortunately most nostr devs and users are Bitcoin maxis and they'll cast you out if you try something like this.
Just my two sats, if I wanted to be on a social network full of crypto wankers, I’d just be on Fartcaster or back on Xitter.
the beauty of nostr is that you can choose to use Bitcoin-only relays and clients. an inflow of users and devs would be a net positive for the protocol imo.
It’s not about promoting other coins, it’s about making them irrelevant.
By opening Nostr to any currency, you expose every closed ecosystem to a protocol that doesn’t need a token to survive. That’s how you make the imitators obsolete.
Bitcoin doesn’t need protection; it just needs a fair arena to prove it’s the most sound money.
That’s what Nostr should be, an open protocol where freedom, not ideology, wins.
there is a proposal https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1934
As far as I know, no one is stopping anyone from putting shitcoins on Nostr. Its an opensource protocol, the protocol won’t stop them. The problem is that most shitcoin developers are to busy scamming their tokens to actually build it. They know that it wouldn’t really add any value to their pockets.
Saying “they can build their own clients” is a copout.
Protocols are about interoperability, if the clients don’t talk to each other, it’s not a protocol, it’s just a bunch of walled gardens sharing a name.
That’s exactly why we need to expand the Zap NIP to read the payment preferences in users’ profile metadata. Profile data should allow more than just a Lightning address. If a user specifies another currency, clients should respect that.
Right now, in response to closed, coin specific ecosystems, we’ve basically created our own version of the same thing, just dressed up as “freedom” and “openness.” If Nostr really wants to lead, it should be open by design, not by slogan.
What is the difference between a platform and a protocol?
Here is the protocol: https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq
Do anything you want with it
