Listening to legend cashu developer nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgkwaehxw309a5xjum59ehx7um5wghxcctwvshszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qrxnfk on Citadel Dispatch with nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgprdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucnfw33k76twwpshy6ewvdhk6qg4waehxw309amk7apwdehhxarj9ecxzun50yq3yamnwvaz7tmhda6zuat50phjummwv5qxfslc, talking about cashu.me and PWAs and this triggered some thoughts.

Needless to say PWAs are an effective way of distributing applications permissionlessly, especially on iOS, but there's a few drawbacks I wanted to mention.

- Hard to install: the fact that you have multiple steps that need explanation (go to the hamburger menu, tap on install, but on iOS use Share...). As insignificant as this sounds, it's a major UX hurdle for users and why I think PWAs are not more widespread. Apple and Google know this very well.

- Harder to discover: though not needing an app store is an upside, it hurts discoverability, especially on app stores with a social layer like nostr:nprofile1qqs83nn04fezvsu89p8xg7axjwye2u67errat3dx2um725fs7qnrqlgzqtdq0

- Reliance on domain names: Not a huge problem but definitely not as sovereign as private keys

- Hard to verify releases: since you pull data and UI from a website, it's unclear when you have upgraded, impractical to sign and next to impossible to audit a particular release. Websites typically perform lots of deployments every day

I have plans for nostr:nprofile1qqs83nn04fezvsu89p8xg7axjwye2u67errat3dx2um725fs7qnrqlgzqtdq0 itself to become a PWA to distribute PWAs, too, and looking forward to find out how to minimize these problems without losing the freedom the web provides.

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Discussion

nostr:nprofile1qqsf03c2gsmx5ef4c9zmxvlew04gdh7u94afnknp33qvv3c94kvwxgspr3mhxue69uhksmmyd33x7epwvdhhyctrd3jjuar0dak8xtcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7208x3z

Apple will always try to kill PWAs

nostr:npub1xdtducdnjerex88gkg2qk2atsdlqsyxqaag4h05jmcpyspqt30wscmntxy is dealing with this too with nsec.app

You could read more about this here https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/

Yes it's totally fucked up

Yup..

Are there any PWAs currently on Zapstore? I just thought to myself the other day that I wish all Nostr apps, including PWAs were on Zapstore, sort as of as a place to see all (or most) of the apps out there in the Nostrverse.

No because of the problems I mentioned. If I include PWAs it will make UX terribly confusing. It needs a lot of thinking to get right.

Just to be sure, but I’m sure you https://progressivewebapp.store/ know already? 🙃 My guess there are more too which I dont know yet

Yes, there are a few like that. That may help discovery but really not much more.

😎

Don't forget that iOS Safari is cucked AF

Use Orion from Kagi

In defense of PWAs:

-It’s a lower point of entry for less experienced developers

-You also don’t need permission from an AppStore to build/release

-And you keep 100% of your revenue instead of giving 30% to app stores

But nonetheless I agree with all of your points. I see them more as tradeoffs though instead of drawbacks.

Agree

Not so much with your second point on android - you can easily get an APK out and keep your revenue

Tradeoffs can change if we introduce better tech

Oh interesting, I wasn’t familiar with that

How does that work?

I would like a link to what you were listening to. I love the cashu project. I think a lot of good work is going on there.

honestly the worst part of pwa for me is not being able to wipe my browser history, cache, cookies etc.

Appreciate the insights. These challenges form the ongoing to do list

Are we sure calle is not Satoshi with another nickname?