Welcome back! You're right that more people are starting to realize there are real challenges here.

As for the specific retention issues...

Onboarding. The fact that self-hosting requires some technical know-how and equipment, and the alternative is to pay to play.

It's easy to pay more than a verified check cost on X when you factor in media hosting and spam-resistant relays.

Network effects. People are already established elsewhere and their friends aren't on Nostr. You're posting into a void initially.

Bitcoin echo chamber. Most people talk about Bitcoin ad nauseam. It really is the main topic of the entire protocol. If you're not interested in Bitcoin maximalism, there's still very little content diversity to keep you engaged.

Reach. People want to be heard. The daily active users hover around 10,000-15,000 "trusted" pub keys. Compare that to any mainstream platform and you're talking about a fraction of a percent of potential audience.

If you're trying to build a brand, promote a business, or just want your voice to matter in broader conversations, Nostr simply doesn't have the numbers.

But here's the thing that really gets me—according to nostr.band data, retention of trusted users trends to 0 within 30 days for recent cohorts. Think about that. We're not just failing to onboard people properly; we're losing the ones who actually make it through the initial hurdles.

The message-to-market mismatch is glaring. The marketing focuses on censorship resistance, but most users aren't posting anything that would get them banned elsewhere. The value proposition doesn't match the user experience for the average person.

And then there's the technical complexity that nobody wants to talk about. Even basic features like follow lists don't scale properly, and the relay model creates consistency issues that confuse new users.

I could go on, but these are the main structural hurdles I see that need addressing before Nostr can move beyond its current niche.

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There are actually apps tackling these challenges, now, but almost everyone uses Primal, so their efforts don't improve any user's actual experience.

And using large aggregators, with no spam filter, to build the threads, is a strategic mistake. See it on Jumble. You get the feed looking good, and then someone clicks on an entry and it's bots, crypto spam, and penis all the way down.

The fear of not-displaying something on here is ridiculously high. Let's just have lots of different clients, instead, or start users off with a more limited feed and let them dial up the dickortunity. It's not only relays, that need some diversity.

The retention rates have gone down, since they launched. Right?

Primal is a blessing and a curse.

It's horrible for onboarding.

It suggests the same small group of people to everyone that signs up.

Including bots, nobody that's new to nostr wants to follow serious humour or whatever other bots primal suggests.

And it's a twitter clone, which means only twitter users will actually like it.

But it's still the most user friendly client

I'm newer and didn't use Primal so not all users will automatically use that. I settled on Amethyst for now because I want something actually decentral. I also want something that supports proper anonymous DM's and those reddit style interest groups. Amethyst has it all, and I find its lazy loading quite charming.

Primal I disliked because I could immediately tell its not decentral but its going trough their server which gives them control. That defeats the purpose of a decentral ecosystem. If I want that kinda thing i'd use soapbox / ditto since those instances anyone can host.

Suggestions for better decentralized clients are very much welcome though.

I think technical complexity is the biggest issue.

That and just how difficult it is to actually find people when you first join.

Took me weeks to find enough people to follow and even then, 1/3 of the day, from about now until 9pm my time, it's just empty.

Media hosting is one thing but the majority of people on social media are consumers rather than producers so I think it's more just the lack of content to view rather than people wanting to post more than they can

And yet, we are the content creators and app developers. We are why people use Nostr.

As a newer user I only partially agree. The community isn't why I came here. I know nobody on here so it wasnt a "I really want to follow X but they only post on Nostr". Its the idea of a platform immune to all the censorship and digital ID stuff that makes me want to use it. But at the same time it had nobody on it there would be no point in using it.

What does help bigtime is that this community while quite one sided in their interests with the majority being bitcoiners are friendly and seem tollerant people. While Mastodon was the most toxic place I have ever been to. I got slandered as a nazi and banned for suggesting I should be able to follow a content creator on an instance that the creators of Mastodon didn't like. Not only did I get defamed by the tusky developer who crippled the app not to work with that instance I got banned within 5 minutes for merely suggesting it on a very large mastodon instance.

Here its not like that. They can't dog pile me to get rid of me because there is no admin that can boot me off. As a result those power tripping psycho's don't come here as they have no power here. And what you then see is that the people who do come here are the ones who value civil discussion even if they don't agree. The whole zap thing encourages people to be civil, so does the anti censorship.

Personally I havent seen spam. At least not worse than Mastodon used to be. I just know that on any platform chronological global timelines are a bad idea. So I don't take the posts that are there to be an issue with the platform. Instead I follow people I come across in the comments or look at who the people I follow are following.

Censorship resistance was the only reason I came to Nostr originally. That cancel this t-shirt company guy from tiktok made a video about it.

He wasn't even here for 2 weeks before he stopped posting though.

I’m all in Bitcoin and Nostr

That's an excellent list. If you have those broken out somewhere I'd love to contribute. Could be an issue tracker if nothing else. I agree that each one is a valid problem and would enjoy helping to track and drive solutions on all fronts.

To be honest NOSTR is where bad people go to pretend to be good people. You’ve got people defending drug trafficking and theft because technically there is a use case for Silk Road and coin mixing outside of that.

thats what they said about bitcoin too.

Bitcoin is not Nostr—far from it. How are you making this correlation, specifically?

Criticizing Nostr for its niche adoption or limited user retention today is shortsighted — it’s the same mistake people made when declaring Bitcoin “dead” over a hundred times in its early years. Now, Bitcoin is recognized globally as a resilient, censorship-resistant store of value with institutional support and a \$1T+ market cap. History shows that paradigm-shifting technologies often begin in the margins, misunderstood and underestimated.

Nostr is in a similar place. It is not trying to be a copy of Twitter or a trendy app with quick growth hacks. It's an open protocol — a foundational piece of infrastructure — built to resist censorship, empower individuals with private keys, and enable interoperable, decentralized social communication. That mission isn't sexy for the average user right now, but it's vital in a world where speech is increasingly moderated by opaque corporate policies and geopolitical interests.

Yes, the user experience is still being refined. Yes, it feels like a home mostly for Bitcoiners and cypherpunks at the moment. But dismissing it for those reasons is like mocking the early internet because it was slow and required technical know-how. The real value of Nostr lies in what it enables, not where it currently stands.

Decentralized networks take longer to mature. They don't have the luxury of venture-fueled growth or centralized coordination. But what they build — when done right — is lasting. It’s not about hype or virality; it’s about sovereignty, resilience, and freedom.

People often want instant gratification — viral apps, mooning coins, dopamine hits. But the most important innovations demand patience. Just like Bitcoin did. And if Nostr stays the course, improves user experience, and keeps aligning with the ethos of censorship resistance and user empowerment, it will become more than just a niche — it will be necessary.

So don’t judge Nostr by its current size. Judge it by its principles, its trajectory, and its long-term potential to shift how we communicate in the digital age — just like Bitcoin changed how we think about money.

Bitcoin succeeded because it solved an immediate problem people have. Nostr is building the right solution for real censorship-resistance, but we're currently creating a free speech infrastructure with retention issues—dissidents need amplification, not just protection.

"Bitcoin succeeded because it solved an immediate problem.”

Yeah — and most people didn’t even see that problem at the time. It was nerd money, tulip mania, internet magic beans... until it wasn’t.

Now apply that to Nostr.

Censorship IS a real problem. People just don’t feel it yet or think it won’t happen to them. But when it does, it’s already too late. That’s why Nostr matters.

Yes, it’s early. Yes, it’s rough. So was Bitcoin in 2010.

And if you don’t get why censorship-resistant communication is worth building now, before it’s “needed”…

"If you don't get it, I don't have time to explain it to you.”

We’re not late. We’re early. Again.

Hardly anyone gets personally censored. That's why it's not a draw for the social feed use case. Different with the OtherStuff. Git repos, books, medical journals, media, store-fronts, etc. is the part where censorship-resistence is valuable.

But, like I said, you need the social feed hopping, to keep the relays going, as they provide the mass. Social feed and DMs.

You can advertise your other stuff off-Nostr, but you can't store the data off-Nostr.

lol, "Hardly anyone gets censored.”

You might think that, until it happens to you, or someone close to you.

I have friends who’ve been shadowbanned, deplatformed, and financially censored, not just on X or Facebook, but on dating apps, Airbnb, and banking platforms.

This isn’t hypothetical. It’s not rare. It’s just quiet. That’s how censorship works now, not dramatic bans, but silent removals and algorithmic suppression.

And sure, social feeds feel trivial — until they’re the only way you have to reach people. They’re the gateway layer. Without them, the "OtherStuff” doesn’t reach the world. You can't build a censorship-resistant ecosystem while relying on censored infrastructure for discovery and distribution.

Relays stay alive because people talk. DMs, shitposts, serious threads, they’re all part of the same defense: freedom to publish, to speak, to exist online without a gatekeeper.

If you still think “it’s not a problem,” that’s fine.

But as Satoshi said:

"If you don’t get it, I don’t have time to explain it to you.”

MAYBE YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN CENSORED, BUT DONT SPEAK FOR EVERYONE

BITCOINERS AND MANY OTHERS GOT CENSORED LEFT & RIGHT ON TWITTER DURING COVID, SO MUCH SO THAT PEOPLE HAD NUMBERS AT THE END OF THEIR NEW PROFILES TO SHOW THEIR # OF BANS ...

if bitcoin whales were nostr interactions, yeah, i guess bitcoin is dead too!

bitcoin succeeded? I didn't get that news

Spme corrections here. Bitcoin hasn't succeeded, it is captured & the price is highly manipulated. And it fails when it comes to privacy.

Nostr is only cencorship resistance when yiu run your own relay, otherwise not as any relay can delete your content anytime.

Let's be very clear: Bitcoin succeeded as in becoming the first real globally accepted cryptocurrency.

And yes, it is also being co-opted by the powers that be and failing in its original cypherpunk mission as a currency as laid out in the white paper as far as I'm concerned. This includes its ongoing challenges with privacy and functioning as a truly peer-to-peer electronic cash system, as originally envisioned.

So, "success" is a relative term here.

I have written much on the subject that you have read, liked, and agreed with over the years about Monero and Bitcoin, privacy vs open ledger, store of value vs digital currency etc.

It was not my intention to respond to the OP in great detail on things I have posted about countless times before on this account.

And because I only like to repeat myself when I'm being redundant... ;)

And since you mentioned this twice in a post and this comment... I will say again...

I did not say, "Nostr is real censorship resistant."

My exact words were, "Nostr is building the right solution for real censorship-resistance."

By "right," I mean permissionless and decentralized. By "building," I mean it's a work in progress.

it's the positive messaging. makes you ditch your deVICES and go do stuff...

Agree with the “message-to-market mismatch”, Elon Musk’s X has changed the market removing the urgency to adopt Nostr, and other platforms have eased off the censorship such as LinkedIn and Facebook.

That said, censorship may increase and irrespective, Nostr’s access apps are improving making it easier to use.