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Fulthunge Rani
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Do you worry if today's controversial OP_RETURN PR merger is going to negatively affect the push to enable CTV + CSFS?

It was about damn time. Thanks nostr:nprofile1qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcqyrrkzl5yxd7xz8rat72pkdd3a3gl9tnwnaq64jtpvzfd2y8pc227qxxwq2n nostr:nprofile1qyxhwumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmvqyehwumn8ghj7mnhvvh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7ctewe4xcetfd3khsvrpdsmk5vnsw96rydr3v4jrz73hvyu8xqpqsg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q8dzj6n

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzp3mp06zrxlrpr374l9qmxkc7c50j4ehf7sd2e9skpyk4zrsu990qqy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcqyraufefjjr9mn49z3tl92wrcr8lrznzl8shyla96azeyc64huezr23fyt43

A general synopsis is that with 8Gb Pi4, I cannot add some other apps on my Umbrel OS on top of Core + Lightning + Electrum and some other apps like Jam, Mempool, Nostr relay and Pi-hole. Thats my point, a slow degradation that has made me upgrade to mini-PC within 4 years.

Rather than diving further in that aspect, what are core developers doing to resist or prevent further UTXO bloat?

My thinking is as follows:

1. UTXO bloat (4 GB -> 12 GB in the last year?) has already increased the growth and hardware requirements (I had to replace my Pi4 8 GB)

2. Bitcoin core has done nothing to fight against it.

3. Now they want to invite more spammers and it's not going to help with Problem1 because it is financially wise to put data in witness than OP_RETURN.

I mean Gresham's law is also true

You save undervalued assets and spend overvalued ones.

And it is true. Btc is undervalued and dollar is overvalued.

But we need to push the movement for sure.

Replying to Avatar Garbage nsec

> Half-penny and paisa were in common circulation until inflation wiped it out. cents and dimes will also go away as well given the rate of dollar inflation.

Which changes nothing. If half-penny were in common circulation then it would be the smallest individual unit in common circulation. There's always one (and only one) unit that ticks that box.

> Try changing the 21Million cap and you will see that no nodes will accept it: no one wants to willingly dilute their worth. That is what I mean by Bitcoin's global truth.

The cap cannot be changed. What can be changed is how the cap is expressed. I can be 1.90m or 190cm, doesn't change my height.

>Lightning uses milli-sats. What happens to the base money then, just keep redefining the base unit?

If the millisat becomes the smallest individual unit in common circulation the that's what happens. If the currency is called Sats it just becomes a case where Sats isn't the smallest. That's how dollars and penies work.

Zooming out, the key point is what I call the grocery store test. If you can’t price things you'll find in the grocery store in Unit X—and have that pricing be easily parsable by the human brain—then Unit X should NOT be the name of the currency.

The dollar, the pound and the rupee all pass the grocery store test. Therefore they are all workable names for a currency. Bitcion does not pass the grocery store test. You cannot price one can of soup at 0.00001 BTC and another can of soup at 0.0001 BTC and have the brain be able to see that second can is10 times more expensive. Brain isn't wired for such ratio parsing. You have to price everything in Sats and Sats alone.

Every major currency in the world passes the grocery store test (because of how the brain works).

Therefore if we use Sats for the grocery store then the word and symbol for Bitcoin will have no job in that context. They'll gets fired by Sats. Which, if that's what you want, then ok.

Whatever floats your boat man.

You started by saying for a currency we need the smallest base unit that is not further divisible, and the likes of Jack and you want to call it "Bitcoin".

As a counter example, I said L2 further divides the base unit, which I call "sats" into "millisats", so my question is, where you draw the line of redefining the base unit? As I said, Bitcoin is deflationary currency so, in 100 years, what happens when we need micro-sats in L2?

I'll give you my main summary.

My point is the base unit is Bitcoin, and there is 21 million of them. You can divide it to smaller units as you want (L2, L3, maybe even soft fork L1). You can call it sats, bits, micro-sats, micro-bits, etc. Giving your example, your height is 1.90m /190 cm. You can even call it 1,900mm or 1,900,00 um etc. What you cannot do is redefine the units and say your height is 190 m, and that is the crux of the matter.

In regards to using as medium of exchange, it depends on the size of the transaction. For a house price, you'll say it costs 4 bitcoin, not 400,000,000 sats. And for a milk, you'll say its costs 400 sats not 0.00000400 btc. The human mind will adopt to the correct size designation, like we use for length scale (lightyears), mass scale (amu) and time scale measurements (millenia).

At this point, I am done discussing this matter any further, as its clear we have agreed to disagree.

> Half-penny and paisa were in common circulation until inflation wiped it out. cents and dimes will also go away as well given the rate of dollar inflation.

> Try changing the 21Million cap and you will see that no nodes will accept it: no one wants to willingly dilute their worth. That is what I mean by Bitcoin's global truth.

Bitcoin is a deflationary currency. What happens when we need units smaller than one sat? For instance, Lightning uses milli-sats. What happens to the base money then, just keep redefining the base unit? Your reductionist viewpoint doesn't bode well.

all these big words, but what's your point?

I clearly gave you a unit ratio comparison with word-pair that you say shouldn't exist in real world: Angstrom to meter. But you completely ignore it.

Within the term rupees, I gave you examples of lakhs (10^5) and crores (10^7).

So just like 10crores = 10,000,000 rupees, 1 bitcoin = 10,000,000 sats.

lol I just gave you the example with Angstroem and Meter. (Ratio of 1:10,000,000,000)

You can call MegaSats, KiloSats, just like there is milliSats in lightning.

And if you are worried by 8 zeroes instead of 9, go study eastern culture where they use Lakhs and Crores with even spaces (2 units).

Stop shoving your naive take.

Drop the Angstroem. Just meter. It's cleaner.

The feature size of the next gen chip goes from 1.4 Angstroem to 1.4 meters. Do you see how stupid that sounds?

after listening to Shinobi and Mechanic, whom do you agree more with? nostr:nprofile1qyxhwumn8ghj7cnjvghxjme0qyt8wumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgtcqyrtl8gkckam5xwfxugu46v2e3yhgg70gwx5qpeqp7prlkz9dzlejkvg2vts

For me one thing was for sure, Shinobi was condescending and calling us stupid. He commented saying who the hell are we to decide what is spam. But who is he to tell me what goes in my node?

why are they going to OP_RETURN when they can get 4x witness discount?

If we were to succumb to miners we would have had Segwit2x.

lol go lie some other gullible people.

I'm sorry, but your team funds OpenSats and Ten31; you cannot just be an NPC on this.

I've noticed that many core developers have their own Bitcoin products, giving them a vested financial interest in enabling certain features. How do you manage conflicts of interest when making decisions to support developers?