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Swan Tea
43957102a47c3af6af614018a82ab68840a69dd3e71a4d6a36578f25766e62ff
Swedish. Music teacher by day, self-taught economist by night.

I have come to adapt a different framework considering the digital:

It is a different realm or dimension.

Many times what we do in one does not affect us in the other. If that is sustained, we will develop multiple personas. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but that is another great reason why we should not forget the USP of physical meetings. And now I am not talking about boring unproductive meetings at work, but friendships, meeting people with a shared vision, or duking it out with people you don’t agree with in real life.

We are humans, and we are not adapted for this new realm. Probably never will be.

2025 will be when I post more on NOSTR. Here is the thought of 2nd of January:

If you are uncensored on your platform, such as this one, it means you actually might have to think before you post. Posts are not just deleted. Not asking us to censor each other, but point the gun the right way when it's armed. Let's have discussions, arguments, and a common quest for truth (with sprinkles of memes and sh*tposting, ofc).

"Iron sharpens iron, one man the other." -Proverbs 27:17

Replying to Avatar JokerHasse

GM

GM Hasse! Long time no NOSTR for me, have been caught in the X sphere for too long. New year, new habits, I hope.

Happy new 2025 everybody!

I am giving myself the homework of being more active on NOSTR, and play more racket sports for 2025.

Also, I will for my life try to let Bitcoin do its thing (and to applicable extent Saylor) without interrupting the process. It's like trying to outsmart Stockfish.

You're mate in 15. You try to avoid it. Now you are mate in 4.

FINALLY, the Swedish education system will allow people to get low grades without panicking.

The A-F scale will be removed for a 1-10 scale, and students no longer are denied access based on Fs but will compete with other students based on an average of their grades.

To me as a teacher, this is great news. Finally students are allowed to fail in one thing to be able to work on their strengths. This is not a day too early.

Changes going to take effect sometime in 2025.

Replying to Avatar Rusty Russell

First up, I want to recognize that this is an uncomfortable topic! Bitcoin is inevitably changing towards user-pays, and that's not all positive. But facts we don't like are still facts: can't engineer a solution if we can't think about the problems.

There are three kinds of bitcoiners.

A. Those who can afford any fee.

B. Those who can afford a UTXO, but not often.

C. Those who can't afford a UTXO.

Nobody worries about the A group (and in the early days, that was everyone). Obviously Lightning (my area!) caters to the B group, and we want it to be as large as possible. To do this we can (1) make lightning as resiliant as we can so onchain spends are rare, (2) make bitcoin as efficient as possible so we can cram as much as we can into what we have.

(1) Making lightning more resilient and reliable is engineering. Lots of people working on this, even before we get soft-forks which could help further.

(2) More efficiency has two benefits: obviously if your own onchain spends are 20% smaller, that's 20% cheaper. But if *everyone's* onchain spends are 20% smaller, that means fees are lower *for everyone* too (and it's non-linear). So we really care about all Bitcoin usage! Some things are obvious wins: Taproot so you can avoid even putting the script onchain in many cases, FROST so you can cram your 2 of 3 or other scheme into a single key and signature. We know we want to get more aggressive with sharing one signature across multiple inputs (Cross Input Signature Aggregation), but that needs a lot more research, and a soft-fork.

But even with all these, the math is clear: some people, even if you somehow gave them their wealth in a UTXO, it couldn't afford its own fees to spend. The C group is real. Spoiler alert: we don't have an answer for this! But let's look at some approaches people have tried.

Firstly, there are attempts to move these people into the B group: give them long enough that maybe fees will reach a point they can afford. This seems unlikely to me:

1. As fees increase everyone will start doing the work to take advantage of low fee times, and that itself means that low-fee times won't be so low.

2. These schemes tend to increase onchain footprints, so they need fees to drop a lot to overcome that (typical is 2x the transaction size, so you need fees to halve to gain anything).

3. If you really can't afford the fee, you probably also can't afford to wait.

4. You still haven't actually dealt with those who really, really can't afford the fees. Ever.

Another suggestion is that someone (e.g. a lightning service provider) will lock up funds which would cover fees, in case something goes wrong. This doesn't work economically, because nobody is paying $100 for a $5 user (not at scale), but it doesn't even work mathematically: the reason some people will have small UTXOs is because there are not enough sats for 10 billion people with any realistic distribution.

There are two basic approaches left:

1. Group people, so they fall into the B category (i.e. onchain tx is possible, but expensive).

2. Trust someone, but rely on incentives.

1. Grouping people is possible, but they need to work together if somenthing goes wrong. So grouping inside a community is probably better than grouping with randos.

For example, there are various tree-of-transaction schemes where you go onchain only if the coordinator fails/goes rogue, and how much it costs you depends on whether anyone near you in the tree pays to get themselves out. These are basically free if nothing goes wrong (one UTXO required for thousands of users!). But this is subject to ghettoization, where the coordinator makes sure all the C people are grouped together, knowing none of them can afford the transactions they need to get their funds back. It's particularly bad because the coordinator can insert its own fake "whales" to make it look like it's not ghettoized.

You can play with incentives here, too: more research needed. The details matter!

2. Relying on incentives.

As a simple example, lightning-connected e-cash mints. They can't rug individuals very easily, they have to rug everyone together (or go fractional and rug the last ones to exit). Maybe with enough anonymity and reputation, these would be Good Enough.

More ambitious would be a single UTXO held for multiple people by a coordinator. Can we make it so that if a coordinator is dishonest, you can force them to burn your funds? Maybe burn more than your funds (ie. a bond)? Won't get your money, but it aligns incentives so they're not motivated to rug you. The details here really matter!

There's a cute scheme which has been proposed where the coordinator pays a temporary bond, and asserts that they actually have everyone's signature to transfer the funds. If nobody challenges within a week, they get the bond back and the funds move. If someone challenges, all the signatures are put onchain, and if they're not all valid, the bond gets half-burned and half-given to the (successful) challenger. This is hard to make work, though. Someone needs to get the money to challenge (hard if you don't have the money in the first place, plus it's hard to prove to someone you *didn't* sign something!), and then make sure nobody gets the challenge bond before them (in particular, a dishonest coordinator, seeing the game is up, completes the successful challenge *themselves* and gets half their bond back), and make sure someone can't grief and delay the settlement indefinitely or bankrupt the coordinator.

More research needed, here, too.

Summary

A longer post than I had expected to write. And it's buried in the middle of a thread nobody will read. (I do this sometimes. I suck at marketing I guess!)

Sub-fee bitcoin amounts will have tradeoffs, involving trusting someone who has more money than you (at least, in someone's competence, even if their *financial* incentives can be made to match yours). This is difficult to build well, and not a very exciting thing to build today, so it hasn't really happened (custodial things are much, much easier!).

This is also a key reason I believe we need to make Bitcoin more expressive: if we can do *more* with our own UTXOs, we can build better solutions. And by "we" I mean "someone smarter than me" of course!

Feedback welcome!

I loved the incentives part. Especially how to hinder "cannibalism", where a single actor challenges themselves and make it look like a contest.

Don't trust all you see, huh?

Is there a way to give and receive zaps with Ecash yet? I want to mess around with it on Nostr.

Replying to Avatar Trey Walsh

Donal Trump talking about Bitcoin, and folks associating it with the GOP/far right candidates

Swan now sponsoring Tucker Carlson’s national tour.

Regardless of your views, the work through nostr:npub1fpcd25q2zg09rp65fglxuhp0acws5qlphpg88un7mdcskygdvgyqfv4sld is now more important than ever so that folks don’t assume bitcoin is just this right wing pet project, but it’s for anyone including liberals and progressives. I’ll do my part to spread this message and education (with content I believe can appeal to a wide audience from all walks of life, but definitely including progressives with our themes of human rights, social justice, environmentalism, and beyond)

Check out our latest update on nostr:npub1kmwdmhuxvafg05dyap3qmy42jpwztrv9p0uvey3a8803ahlwtmnsnhxqk9 as I’m seeking to raise 1 Bitcoin to take things to the next level

https://geyser.fund/entry/3218

Sorry Trey, but the first shipment has already sailed here.

I also hope that people both left and right come around, but one should not use strategies based on hope. Played too much Starcraft to know that's a losing play... 😅

I think you need to highlight more of the work of @alexgladstein and @OsloFreedomForum to win folks over, but that's a hard sell domestically in the US.

Also, Warren needs to go.

You too? Man. Been having fever and coughing my lungs out for days now.

Let's get well.

Imagine the first posts on the Internet. The first crude websites, the first cat pictures, the first memes. They were humble beginnings, a footprint of "hehe, we have no idea of what we're doing but it's fun".

Now imagine those poor attempts of communication being fixed in time forever, and potentially un-erasable, even by yourself.

Voila, welcome to Nostr. Think before you post, and take full responsibility for exercising your free speech on steroids.

Of course we are going to mess around. But my plea is: let's do that with the goal of making a garden out of this jungle. To cultivate it, so that it may carry the fruits of ideas that sustains us.

Replying to Avatar Reid Walley

Totally agree. For a noobie custodial UX is easiest.

But I live in the United States and nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq is no longer offered here. WoS decided to pull their app from the App Store instead of comply with KYC (or whatever regs it had to comply with). And I applaud them for that 🫡

At the birthday party I mentioned attending, we tried using Cash App, but the app required them to provide a government-issued ID to receive Bitcoin. And they didn’t want to do that.

So I had them install Phoenix Wallet.

I sent them $10 of Bitcoin on-chain (instead of via Lightning, because explaining Lightning and liquidity to a noobie at a birthday party was just too overwhelming for them).

What about Aqua wallet? I think you would need something with built-in channel management. I know Aqua is targeting the developing markets and total noobs.

Sorry, but the first will probably have to be Wallet of Satoshi. Custodial, but the UX is the easiest.

If we don't get a red month, are we getting enough volatility? Which is the price of gains?

Showing off Nostr to my ETH friend. Show him what it can do! Lots of 💕

Replying to Avatar Reid Walley

Watched a couple’a Andreas Antonopoulos videos, one in particular for IDEO which focused on how much #Bitcoin could benefit from better UX.

Even though the video was from 2015 or 2016, my graphic designer instincts kicked in.

I’ll be attending a birthday party for my grandson later today and it’s a perfect opportunity for me to chat with family about onboarding to Bitcoin and Lighting. And as I look at different apps I realize:

• Some require email and password to set up

• Some require email and first name to set up

• Some require writing down 12-word seeds to set up

And all these peeps at the party are not gonna have an easy way to remember the unique password they created, and writing down a 12-word seed phrase and keeping it safe is definitely gonna be new and scary.

And they’ll have to do this while at a party, drinking, and I doubt any of them even has a password manager to save the password and there’s no place to safely store a 12-word seed phrase while they’re out partying.

Out at a party isn’t necessarily a safe environment for securing passwords and seed phrases. Especially for noobies.

Thinking back to when I was orange pulled in 2017, person had me install Bread App on my Android smartphone, walked me through how to display a QR code, then sent me $5 of BTC from his Bread App. It was all 100% new and weird and odd to me. I don’t even remember if I had to enter my email and first name, or email and create a password. But I know for sure I didn’t have to write down 12- word seed phrase to set up Bread App, but I was told that I absolutely had to write down my 12-word seed phrase once I got home.

Graphic designer instincts kickin’ in and thinking about easiest on-boarding solutions for peeps who are drinking and having a good time and not thinking about passwords and 12-word seed phrases.

I would probably think that passkeys is the way everything is going.

Set up passkey - use biometry - done.