What about it's privacy?
Is there a convenient reason you didn't answer that one?
I don't want to live in a panopticon, sorry bro.
You can't decide who uses permissionless systems whether it is Monero or Bitcoin. Otherwise it wouldn't be permissionless.
Even in a world with Bitcoin you are dreaming if you think governments or anyone shady is going to play fair and choose to transact and be accountable on it. Not happening. Bill Gates, Jeffrey Epstein, and any 3 letter agencies already accomplished their dirty deeds well before Monero existed.
Monero gives the average joe the power to keep his finances under his control and hidden from governments or bad actors. We saw what happens when governments can see political opponents bitcoin transactions during the trucker protests in Canada. They can just send men with guns to go knock on your door.
Governments will use transparency against plebs. Privacy and anoymity are the only protection you have against a stronger adversary.
How are you going to afford to use Bitcoin when txn fees rise?
"We'll just use lightning bro duh...and pray our channels are never force closed" 📈🙏😬
#btc #bitcoin #LN #lightning
Lightning Force Close Detection Bot:
npub169n9eaf0t20j0nefwqlqtnqcpsym22k2nw6e3tevtrrru4et7wrsh5w47v
Whether it is voodoo or not doesn't prevent government from using it to associate you with transactions.
https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-fog-roman-sterlingov-blockchain-analysis/
https://www.torekeland.com/roman-sterlingov/
It also doesn't prevent any counter party you transact with from snooping.
https://github.com/jlopp/physical-bitcoin-attacks/blob/master/README.md
Why even risk all these things?
Your IP address can be gathered by using remote nodes. And the consequences of this are much more severe than on Monero.
https://voltage.cloud/blog/lightning-network-faq/lightning-network-privacy-explainer/
https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook/blob/develop/16_security_privacy_ln.asciidoc#attacks-on-lightning
https://abytesjourney.com/lightning-privacy/
"We identified 27,183 private channels, discovered hidden balances, and showed how a passive adversary can infer payment endpoints with very high probability."
This is such a hard point to drive thru to Bitcoiners. I feel it is more ideological than anything...
YOU
DONT
HAVE
TO
SAVE
WITH
MONERO
Use it!
*Today* and for the near forseeable future, Monero is much more private than LN. What good will future privacy do if you can be revealed if you use LN today?
In the future, LN is more private, since it is not recorded on a blockchain as you say *IF* (Big IF!) no one is currently saving that data. We know chain analysis is very likely saving that data! And we have no clue if central hubs are saving most network data!
Let us look at Darknet Markets. Increasingly using Monero. Soon to overtake Bitcoin. True skin in the game, their literal lives are on the line, and ultimate market test.
Can't stop us bruh
I'm here to set the record straight 🏄♂️
Every 10 minutes you are personally reading the blockchain and making sure all input and all outputs are equal to 0? You are either lying or must get no sleep sir.
You realize the only thing that saved bitcoin from that inflation bug was the good samaritan nature of a single anonymous user right? No amount of transparency could've stopped him from exploiting it.
Well, Bitcoin ever hardforking is a longshot, and if you need private transactions *today*, not in some hypothetical future, that is what Monero is for.
A public blockchain can't be more private than Monero.
Recievers and amounts don't even appear on Monero's blockchain. They are completely hidden. Senders and transaction IP is obduscated. There is no transaction graph connecting senders and recievers on Monero. And amount analysis isn't possible either.
Monero transaction:
~6% chance Alice sent $[?] to [?]
Bitcoin transaction:
Alice sent $X to Bob
With coinjoin you are obfuscating everything, but all range of connections and amounts are visible. You can be deobfuscated with future data. There is a whole industry around it: blockchain analysis.
You are right though that they are specializing for 2 different goals. Bitcoin is trying to be sound money. Monero is trying to be digital cash. You can save with Bitcoin, and spend with Monero. Doing this virtually eliminates any worries about saving Monero.
Liquid:
Confidential (hides amounts)
Monero:
Confidential (hides amounts)
Stealth addresses (hides receivers)
Ring Signatures (obfuscates senders)
Dandelion++ (hides transaction IP)
The transaction graph on Liquid is completely visible. Liquid is also a permissioned network.
You know who you sound like?
Corporate media and legacy finance bobbleheads that said the same thing about Bitcoin in it's darknet market infancy. You know Bitcoin grew out of darknet markets right? Pretty ironic stance.
Bitcoin coinjoin obfuscation is weak privacy, it doesn't hide anything even when done correctly. Monero uses strong encryption for amounts and recievers and you just hit send. You want to onboard the world and think everyone is going to know how to use coinjoins let alone use them correctly. It's a fantasy.
At least with credit cards you are only surveilled by a bank. With Bitcoin the whole world can see.
Tell Darknet Markets that are increasingly adopting Monero that it will never work. Ultimate skin in the game, their literal lives are on the line.
How would that help?
You don't even take advantage of your own public blockchains transparent simple math ledger.
Every block do you make sure yourself that [all inputs] = [all outputs] yourself? Or do you just run a node like Monero users? In practice your argument falls apart.
Trivia: Did you know there was a hidden inflation bug in Bitcoin that only an anonymous user knew about? They couldve easily exploited it, but very luckily they were an honest actor who secretly let the devs know (who couldve also decided to exploit it). If they did exploit it, how would detectable inflation help after the fact? It wouldnt. It would be catastrophic for bitcoin and attackers have first mover advantage. There is no good solution to fix an exploited inflation bug without hurting other users.
https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/
www.coindesk.com/markets/2018/09/21/the-latest-bitcoin-bug-was-so-bad-developers-kept-its-full-details-a-secret
USD and gold have much bigger network effects than Bitcoin. Does this spell doom for Bitcoin? Of course not.
And this doesn't seem to stop DNMs from using Monero more and more.
A public blockchain like Bitcoin can never provide the same privacy on chain. And L2s have their own unique trade offs that Monero doesn't. None are replacements for Monero. It just depends on your priorities.
Right now and for the near forseeable futureLN can be read more easily than Monero.
And LN can't be read in the future only *IF* no one is actively saving that data right now. Big IF! Chainalysis is most likely gathering as much data as possible from it. And central hubs can also be saving most network activity. We don't know.
This is why DNMs don't use LN. True skin in the game and market test.
If you are scared the media/technocrats/politicians/majority can kill it by calling it mean names it has completely failed at being unstoppable money.
You using freedom tech or not?
Sorry about yesterday man.
I won't argue with you anymore. But I might do so in your comments. 😂