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You Monero fans come to my comments to try to convince me that your Bitcoin privacy solutions are bullshit, do you see the difference? I don't go to your community, I don't give a shit what you do.

I am it professional, I have dedicated my life to privacy and cryptography , I know very well that Monero has certain virtues, I know how to point them out, but I also know that Monero constantly loses value against Bitcoin and also I have been more than 20 years in the financial markets, Monero is nothing compared to Bitcoin and it is preferable to use Bitcoin privacy methods like coinjoin or sidechains like Liquid for the simple fact that I make sure that 1 btc = 1 btc.

I am not a sectarian, I am a mercenary and I always go for the best, keep that in mind, do not try to convince me of anything because you will not be able to, you are just wasting your time.

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Discussion

₿TC Fiend 2y ago

A shitcoin that is 'private' is still a shitcoin.

Flinders Petrie 2y ago

Which basically can be applied to all the cryptoshitcoin world. Nothing like having pure gold at your disposal!

nobody 2y ago

You know those sucker fish that stay close to sharks??

That’s the vibe

Azz 2y ago

💯 with Bitcoin, once you gain privacy you have innocent Bitcoin. Montero will always have aspersions cast over it

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

If you are scared the media/technocrats/politicians/majority can kill it by calling it mean names it has completely failed at being unstoppable money.

You using freedom tech or not?

Azz 2y ago

That's my point. Moneroo won't be accepted by ordinary people because they don't want to be associated with its use cases.

Bitcoin mainstream adoption is growing giving it greater value and liquidity. If you need privacy you need to do a bit of work to hide your tracks.

It's the same for USD. Most people are happy to spend with their credit card. Those who need to use bags of cash, but the mainstream use gives the bags of cash liquidity.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

You know who you sound like?

Corporate media and legacy finance bobbleheads that said the same thing about Bitcoin in it's darknet market infancy. You know Bitcoin grew out of darknet markets right? Pretty ironic stance.

Bitcoin coinjoin obfuscation is weak privacy, it doesn't hide anything even when done correctly. Monero uses strong encryption for amounts and recievers and you just hit send. You want to onboard the world and think everyone is going to know how to use coinjoins let alone use them correctly. It's a fantasy.

At least with credit cards you are only surveilled by a bank. With Bitcoin the whole world can see.

Tell Darknet Markets that are increasingly adopting Monero that it will never work. Ultimate skin in the game, their literal lives are on the line.

George Saoulidis 2y ago

I'm not an expert but I feel the same way. No matter how good monero's security might be, without the Network effect of bitcoin it's pointless.

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Adarnit 2y ago

🫡

Иван 2y ago

Okay, I just want to say that if I have to pay someone without my government knowing, I will use Monero 😏

Secretary Janet Yellen 2y ago

Okay, I just want to say that if I have to pay someone without my government knowing, I will use #Bitcoin #LN 😏

ShiShi21m 2y ago

This is retarded.

It's easier to acquire Bitcoin not tied to your identity and transfer it with public computers.

Secretary Janet Yellen 2y ago

Monero, like every other "private" shirtcoin, has one issue - every single transaction is written on the blockchain forever. Yes, impossible to read it now, but not in the future.

#Bitcoin #LN doesn't use a blockchain, so there are no nodes, holding the information about ALL past transactions that ever happened FOREVER.

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Brunswick 2y ago

The largest difference between monero and bitcoin is clear to me. It is the same difference that any privacy coin has (there are far better ones than monero). Bitcoin emphasizes understandability and transparency at the base layer.

Novel encryption features are a risk, bitcoin uses only well known and battle hardened cryptography. Obscure forms of cryptography are no guarantee of privacy. Layers above BTC layer 1 can be as complex as needed, and they won't affect the value of bitcoin itself.

This is a battle between classes, and between rulers and surfs, between incompetent moralizing technocrats that wield a monopoly on the use of force and the productive family that has little choice but to yield possession of their accumulated life energy. To add obscurity to the protocol is to give ammunition to the media-technocrat-intelligence cartel to scare people away from it. It is to invite the black market and create the false perception that the purpose of bitcoin is to skirt the law, avoid "fair share" taxation and increase dangerous crime. Regardless if that is true, it flushes any privacy coin into the mental sewers of the majority.

To win the minds of the people, you must first win the minds of those they respect. Unfortunately, that requires cooperation with the statists, and we have seen as of late, even one of the biggest statists (Kennedy) has found a refuge under the wing of bitcoin.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Yes, but as a whole package Monero is apex of privacy coins. Long list of problems with Zcash, Dero, ARR, etc. that directly or indirectly call them into question. Like trusted setups, dev tax, optional privacy, the list goes on.

Just ask the DNMs what they are using more and more. True skin in the game and market test.

Obscure forms of cryptography? Monero is built on established cryptography from the 80s. L2s have their own unique trade offs. Ecash? Custodial. Liquid? Permissioned. Lightning? Complex UX to operate completely sovereign and semi-private. And many others.

If you are scared the media/technocrats/politicians/majority can kill it by calling it mean names it has completely failed at being unstoppable money. If you need statists to win you miss the main point of Bitcoin. PERMISSIONLESS.

Brunswick 2y ago

Explain the monero blockchain to me in two paragraphs, such that I can write a program in an afternoon that walks through it and verify the total quantity and that I solely own my wallet balance.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

How would that help?

You don't even take advantage of your own public blockchains transparent simple math ledger.

Every block do you make sure yourself that [all inputs] = [all outputs] yourself? Or do you just run a node like Monero users? In practice your argument falls apart.

Trivia: Did you know there was a hidden inflation bug in Bitcoin that only an anonymous user knew about? They couldve easily exploited it, but very luckily they were an honest actor who secretly let the devs know (who couldve also decided to exploit it). If they did exploit it, how would detectable inflation help after the fact? It wouldnt. It would be catastrophic for bitcoin and attackers have first mover advantage. There is no good solution to fix an exploited inflation bug without hurting other users.

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/

www.coindesk.com/markets/2018/09/21/the-latest-bitcoin-bug-was-so-bad-developers-kept-its-full-details-a-secret

Brunswick 2y ago

Its fundamental to bitcoin, and yes I do. Pointing out bugs in the past is focusing on a strength, not a weakness. If privacy turns out to be necessary in the future, bitcoin can be upgraded and only if the concensus rule is met.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Every 10 minutes you are personally reading the blockchain and making sure all input and all outputs are equal to 0? You are either lying or must get no sleep sir.

You realize the only thing that saved bitcoin from that inflation bug was the good samaritan nature of a single anonymous user right? No amount of transparency could've stopped him from exploiting it.

Well, Bitcoin ever hardforking is a longshot, and if you need private transactions *today*, not in some hypothetical future, that is what Monero is for.

Brunswick 2y ago

You're imagining some bad argument and dancing around the burning strawman.

Yes I do verify the blockchain every 10 minutes. Yes I do it personally. I verify the blockchain by reviewing the source code of the version of software that collects the blocks and verifies it. To do it 'personally' I guess you mean that I do it manually, and why the F would anyone do that?

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

So, then you are just letting a node run and paying no mind to the blockchain. Exactly like a Monero user would.

You are making my point for me. You are not taking advantage of Bitcoin's transparency. There is no material difference.

If there was an implementation bug exploited you would have no clue until it was already way too late.

Brunswick 2y ago

I never said that you can't use monero. Be my guest. I'm only saying that bitcoin has an entirely different purpose and an entirely different strategy, and that's why it will eventually eat everything.

Waldgänger 2y ago

As libertarian and Freedom maximalist, I think it is counterproductive to exclude a priori any tool that can help us to achieve our common goal to defend ourselves against the oppression of the states, and let ideology obfuscate our curiosity and knowledge: the more the tools we have, the better it is.

I also think we should avoid fighting each other because of technological ideologies and preferences, and don't judge or reject anybody because of this. Everyone should be free to have their own opinion about which technology to use to achieve their goals, and take responsibility for their own failure if they do.

I have no factions in this dispute, I only take the freedom side.

ShiShi21m 2y ago

You're claiming it's a priori, yet he just said he looked at monero thoroughly...

You're drinking the Kool aid and pretending to be neutral in a battle that is far from it.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

A Bitcoin-only maxi is telling others they are drinking the Kool Aid... hilarious

Just stop

Mr⚡2MB 🐇🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

You're either a scammer or someone who is too blind to spot scams.

Stay on your side shitcoiner.

Waldgänger 2y ago

The only scam I spot is maximalism on something that is not the ultimate goal, freedom.

Mr⚡2MB 🐇🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

Good luck reaching your freedom by shitcoining. Your real goal, you will discover, is HFSP.

Waldgänger 2y ago

My real goal is none of your business, nor something you can judge because you don’t like anything beside Bitcoin. You’re a Marxist and you don’t even realize it

Mr⚡2MB 🐇🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

Am I hitting a nerve? 🤣

If you don't like it, that's your problem, I already told you to stay on your side but you don't want to listen.

Whether I am Marxist, maximalist or a whatever, at least I'm not a shitcoiner who scams people.

Listen, nobody likes shitcoiners, especially ones like you who think scamming people is a way to reach freedom.

Take your filthy shitcoins somewhere.

Waldgänger 2y ago

I’m not trying to convince you about anything because I don’t give a shit about you and what you do, otherwise I would put some valid arguments on the table to sustain the conversation. I’m just criticizing your attitude:

- labeling

- judging

without knowing anything about me or what my methods are, and everything is based on dogmatic arguments.

I take full responsibility of my choices, because I investigate with open mindedness all possible tools that can help me in the battle against the state.

I don’t fucking care about the tool;

I only trust myself and my instincts. Keep your dogmas out of this space, because they are the ultimate enemies of Freedom

Mr⚡2MB 🐇🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

Ok, we established that I'm all the stupid things you just said. What is it exactly that you need from me?

Are you lonely or something? Why are you here talking to me?

You're very creepy coming into my notes blabbering bullshit trying to convince me of...I still don't know what the fuck you're trying to convince me of.

You know, a typical loser such as yourself usually fucks off after they get the bullshit out of their system but not you.

No, it looks like you're either bored or mentally unstable (I vote for both). In addition, you're a moron for choosing me to "debate" your insanity.

So, with all due respect, why don't you kindly fuck off. Oh and get your condition treated ASAP, I don't think the sane world needs or wants to hear whatever it is you're trying to convey.

In case you forgot, I said FUCK OFF.

Goon 2y ago

isso

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Sorry about yesterday man.

I won't argue with you anymore. But I might do so in your comments. 😂

Cyph3rp9nk 2y ago

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kohei 2y ago

nostr:note1y9hkhxkp5e4jkv2hqy84ea7gyqkyqs9596hw840jgy0pmm4zeassnlqmzt YES! Going for the best is the one and only option. I’ve been ALL-IN TO THE BEST, Bitcoin for more than 10 years with no regrets, and nothing changed ever since.