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RebelOfBabylon
d06e6018c1fcf7d80d4f18ae7ea669fa10f84389f95f6d1bdcea9727cb266c33

Have you read three-body problem? If not, highly recommend

I love this analogy and I think shows a dichotomy in the nostr world. One side is trying to replicate Twitter where clients are aggregating feeds from many relays and making it feel more like a global public square. The other is thinking about smaller, niche communities with a barrier to entry of some sort (more akin to the early internet with forums). I think both can exist but I personally want to build for the latter and I think the latter is easier to monetize.

Interesting. So I suppose we definitely want to use proper sources of randomness and hope there aren't any bugs that can cause a pattern to emerge. Any thoughts on EdDSA and how it deterministically generates the nonce? Can this sort of thing be implemented in Bitcoin/nostr libraries (assuming it's good and solves the issue)?

Replying to Avatar waxwing

If I understand correctly, you want to make sure that whenever you generate a nonce for your ECDSA signatures, they should be as random as possible and should never be reused because it's simple to derive the secret key from the signature and the nonce.

I imagine that in both nostr and bitcoin, this is known and applications are designed with this in mind? Is ensuring random, non-reused nonces that hard to do?

I think its three things: 1. Unfortunately because of shit coins, NFTs, blockchain grifters and all the crypto related scams (FTX for example), most people lump it all together, bitcoin included as worthless and scammy. It will take some serious PR work to distance bitcoin from those scams or some amazing app that make people look passed this association. 2. Most people's introduction to Bitcoin is by some tool who bought it trying to get rich quick so it is usually associated with investing instead of as a currency. First impressions are crucial. 3. UX. Getting bitcoin, you have to sign up on some exchange (associated with scamminess) or go to an ATM (sketchy). In the best case scenario, someone gifts you some bitcoin so you skip this part. Now storing it if you have anything of value is also strange and difficult. You have to buy a hardware wallet and learn about all of that. Even with a phone wallet, you learn about seed phrases and what it means and I imagine some people feel intimidated by the responsibility. I know most people I introduced this to did so I end up holding their corn -_-. And let's not get started about lightning UX. Anything non custodial is a nightmare for normies. And finally, say you got passed all that. Now what? Almost nobody will accept bitcoin for payment. You have to go out of your way to find merchants who will accept it and even then you're quite limited. I think if the UX could be better than what's already out there, people would use it. Or necessity will drive people to it (e.g. Africa or Latin America).

Just delete twitter. I remember when I had it, the excuses I made for keeping it "I follow good accounts with great info", " I only use it for news". It was all mental gymnastics, the addiction talking. After deleting and the withdrawals subsided, I immediately felt way better. I don't miss it at all, I don't feel like I'm missing out.

“Thanks for picking that up for me! I will Venmo you the money.”

“Oh I don’t have Venmo but I can do bitcoin, CashApp, or PayPal”

*radio silence*

Even if bitcoin has world-class UX, I’m not sure if we’ll ever see widespread adoption until we can figure out how to release the absolute chokehold Venmo has on people, especially millennials.

CashApp may not be self custody but at least I can live my bitcoin life if someone uses it to send me money. Venmo has normalized digital payments so much that it’s changed how people behave and has become a verb. Nobody bothers to split bills anymore and they have stopped carrying cash. Why? Because they “can just Venmo you”.

I can see stack overflow error happening in real time when I tell my friends I don’t have Venmo because I don’t believe they created the social feature in good conscience and think it’s an awful thing for Venmo to try and normalize the destruction of financial privacy. Yes, you can now make transactions private, even if it’s not the default. No, I don’t care. I’m dying in this hill. I don’t want to link my fiat ass bank account to ANOTHER system when PayPal, which owns Venmo does the exact same thing. And you know what? People have been using PayPal since the dawn of the Internet 2.0. You already have it! And if I’m going to use a newer, mobile, digital payment solution, it’s going to be CashApp because at least I can turn that money you owe me into bitcoin, which is what I actually prefer you pay me back in. To add to that, Block and Jack Dorsey have done so much for the Bitcoin ecosystem. Of course I want to support CashApp!

In my experience the hierarchy is:

1. Venmo

2. Zelle

3. Cash (middle ground for “you don’t want to set up CashApp? Weird because I don’t want to set up Venmo!”)

4. “I’ll get your lunch next time”

5. MAYBE PayPal or CashApp

6. Not getting your money back

7. bitcoin

So what do I want? Obviously the Bitcoin Standard, but if I can’t have that I want to make cash great again and more people using bitcoin compatible payment solutions.

I encourage everyone to join me in a crusade of maximum pain for anyone trying to use something that is not this. We all deserve better! A win-win would be if Venmo integrated bitcoin so then all my Venmo using friends could transact with whoever they wish, using a free and open monetary protocol.

For starters it would probably help if I was more often in the scenario of needing to pay people back instead of the other way around…

Similar problem here in Canada except that we don't have Zelle or Venmo and people don't use PayPal. Everyone uses e-transfers. Such a garbage UX. Or cash.

But this is exactly why you do want a purpose built device. I own a 2014 macbook pro and started using crypto currency in 2017. I started with shitcoins, now I'm only bitcoin. But regardless I had a wallet file saved to a USB stick but one day, I checked my funds and they were gone. I consider myself pretty computer literate and to this day, I still don't know how my wallet was swept. Was this laptop air gapped as you're proposing? No, but IMO that is way easier to fuck up than just using a HWW.

Question: would it be possible to do time based delegation? To be more clear, I mean say you have a nostr webapp that you'd like to use, so you create some delegated keys, those keys are stored in the browser (think JWT tokens) and eventually expire. And a new fresh pair can be renegotiated later. This would allow users to sign/send events using the app but without needing constant approval from the remote signer (I'm think a chat app that uses your nostr keys, it would be a pain to have to constantly use my remote signer as opposed to just using it once for a session). Is this kind of scheme possible or even advisable?

I'll be honest, my worldview changed after becoming interested in Bitcoin. Nothing wrong with changing your views when new information comes along. I'm still learning and changing my opinion on stuff today.

Oh if I understand what you're saying, if you have multiple values in the single letter tag

```json

{

"#t": ["gm", " bloom"]

}

```

The relay should interpret that as "events with the "gm" OR "bloom" as values for the "t" tag? And this proposal using "&t" would make "events with "gm" AND "bloom"?

This helped! Thanks. So I guess single letter tag filters just look like this?

```json

{

"#t": [

" gm"

]

}

```

Really random question: what do nostr tag filters actually look like? NIP-1 describes it but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Is there a sample tag filter somewhere?

I feel like this is a perfect example of cultivation theory. The media we consume (books, movies, shows, YouTube videos, etc.) are well crafted narratives where everything about that world is carefully crafted by an author. And that shapes our world view. But the world isn't like that. There isn't some author in control of everything. Sometimes things happen and there's no link. I feel like the Bitcoin/nostr space is filled with people who think this way.

Oh man I desperately want to see the salt in the comments but it's not worth making an account on that hellscape of a platform.