Is anyone working on ecash relays?
Here's what I mean: instead of paying for a subscription to a relay, what if a min amount of ecash has to be attached to a note for the relay to accept it? (locked to the relay npub of course)
Is this already a thing?
Could be useful for "archive this" or whatever, similar how we OTS stuff with NIP-03 right now
CC nostr:nprofile1qqsypwwgtll74lqu4huvxzjwtjyxvrlkujt35rw8y026ke6ttesmg5gpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcpzemhxue69uhkummnw3ex2mrfw3jhxtn0wfnj7qg5waehxw309amk7apwdehhxarj9ehx2ap0dxsk92 nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgkwaehxw309a5xjum59ehx7um5wghxcctwvshszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qrxnfk nostr:nprofile1qqszv6q4uryjzr06xfxxew34wwc5hmjfmfpqn229d72gfegsdn2q3fgpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3e82efwvdhk6tcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszythwden5te0dehhxarj9emkjmn99urf278z nostr:nprofile1qqs9afryspzmk8ljyfj4mhfkumwwmhzrtyxzvzgvfp477w80g5x6t0gpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qywhwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnzd96xxmmfdejhytnnda3kjctv9uz87n0z
Archived for how long? I see some risk in paying a fee all up front and just hoping that the relay doesn’t walk away after a year.
There could be a model where you pay a low fee for archiving things, and have to pay a large fee the moment you want to retrieve the events. The archive could use tape, which is dirt cheap, and retrieval would be slow.
Would be interesting to see what the costs are, ideally the cheap archiving fee's would be enough to (barely) cover the costs involved (assuming scale), and then all the profit is in the retrieval requests.
Keychat is kinda this, right?
Fair, but I'm not talking about chat. I'm talking about all kinds (ha! Get it?) of notes
they have a builtin browser with their custom nip07
I know that events are kinds , or something related to comp sci, but that’s it. I still vaguely get the joke! Yay me!
You got it! Kind of (muahaha)
yea 🤙 should be as easy as throwing proxnut in front of the relay
Level 1, easy, would be gating the initial connection, "attach ecash to access relay".
Level 2, "attach ecash to every nostr msg" requires gating every websocket msg
Level 3, "attach ecash only for posts" means gating only certain websocket msgs (ie not REQs).
Our next step is to enable the Keychat browser to automatically use the Keychat wallet for payments, so that public notes can also be automatically stamped with ecash.
You guys are the best. Why? Because you guys keep on working..improving the app day by day. But what I like the most about Keychat is at the moment...on Github...you're the only Nostr-based app that can be downloaded on multiple devices O.S ( phones/laptops/tabs )...let it be on android..IOS..Windows..Mac.. Linux. If corporations decides to close all the ' exits ' for users...like with the recent news with Google/Android...I can still download Keychat on my Linux devices ( phone/laptop ).All and other Nostr-based app ought to do the same thing fast ! Zapstore...Amethyst..Primal..Damus...Fountain...0xchat...Alby...Minibits...Zapstream etc. And if possible..if there's any Github-liked app built on top of Nostr...you guys should definetly be there too for coporation has taken over Github. We gotta always think 2...3...5 steps or more ahead from our rival.
Thank you. Our goal is to build a foundational app for a niche audience—Bitcoiners—rather than a dispensable app for everyone.
Big
TheForest 🌲accepts zap receipts from everyone, and you can include a comment in them.
But not ecash, right? (zap receipts can be faked)
Seems necessary for MLS and etc. Also, if it's locked to a relay, the relay can also redeem later to avoid timing analysis issues with a mint.
nostr:nprofile1qqspwwwexlwgcrrnwz4zwkze8rq3ncjug8mvgsd96dxx6wzs8ccndmcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wshszxrhwden5te0ve5kcar9wghxummnw3ezuamfdejj7ekel7y curious what you think. nostr:nprofile1qqsth7fr42fyvpjl3rzqclvm7cwves8l8l8lqedgevhlfnamvgyg78spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qgawaehxw309ahx7um5wghxy6t5vdhkjmn9wgh8xmmrd9skctcygfl2f does this already
Also ecash mints should start preparing for micro sat denominations (1 millionth of a sat) because a milli-sat isn’t small enough. We should use ecash as an alternative to rate limiting and other such use cases.
YES
#YESTR
I use Msats right now for my nostr:nprofile1qqsyu43zk46umw6dthksj0jgc6xd8aeylt25w9p0psds4mp09v4qktspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9thwden5te0dehhxarj9ehhsarj9ejx2a30qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskuep0tntfql using the otrta mint
By msat do you mean millisat? (1 1000th of a sat).
Yes. Msats currently allow precision of pricing variable costs for efficiency in consumer experience.
1/1000th isn’t small enough for things like rate limiting, especially if bitcoin rises in price
I was thinking about this for a bit. Smaller unit use seems correlative to either fiat denominated price increase or scarcity via proof of work in order to accomplish the task at scale. nanosats/nanosecond the future.
cashu as the auth/api token string is incredible
Sweet yeah we can go to 1 billionth of a sat
🎯
milli already works, do we really need micro?
Yes! AFAIK it’s the best anonymous payment method for rate limiting. Suppose the following:
- 1 Bitcoin is 1M USD, so 1 sat == 1 cent
- a server running a performant Nostr relay costs $100 a month (or 10B micro sats)
- if that relay server can handle 100 requests a second, that’s ~250M requests a month
- if the relay charges 50 micro sats per request, thats 10.25B micro sats per month, which is 10,250 sats, which is $102.50.
We really actually might need nano (billionth of sat) in the future if we get massive deflation from technological progress…
This is so easy I can vibe this like in 10 min, if its ecash attached to a note. Just tack it on as a module to khatru and voilà, done!
i guess you want someone here to do it, tho... right? 😆
Reminds me of the latest epoxy developments from Leo at the cashu hackday
What if the event is send to all configured relays and the first one who redeems it gets it, so its like mining the event bit still all have to keep it .. So relays could compete 😸
The idea has proposed a few times over the years. Don't know of anyone who actually build it
You can do it today.
Just put a proxnut in front of the API call of any exciting relay.
https://github.com/gandlafbtc/proxnut
The client is the problem.
I think it's a dead end because now all clients would have to be patched to include this or they wouldn't work in this relay. It's probably better to have the relay host an HTML page where people can buy "credits" and then use these normally.
Later clients that want to can include streamlined buy-and-use flows for these credits by talking to some HTTP API provided by the relay which can hopefully be standardized.
A good community-spec can make this work. As communities can be proxies for relays and perform exactly the functions nostr:npub1dergggklka99wwrs92yz8wdjs952h2ux2ha2ed598ngwu9w7a6fsh9xzpc descrobes (Archive, etc...).
Makes you not run into the backwards-compatibilty trap.
And something like #communikeys gives the admins and the apps build on it the option to handle separate prices/conditions for each content-type.
You are right, but a client that has integrated Cashu wallet would solve zaps as well, so this might be a good way to give users both paid relay and easy to use zapping capability.
#onlynuts
