Nostr Web Client

“Scaling and anonymizing Bitcoin at layer 1 with client-side validation” - our new proposal, also sent to bitcoin-dev mail list.

https://github.com/LNP-BP/layer1

“We propose a way to upgrade Bitcoin layer 1 (blockchain/timechain) without a required softfork. The upgrade leverages properties of client-side validation, can be gradual, has a permissionless deployment option (i.e. not requiring majority support or miner cooperation) and will have the scalability sufficient to host billions of transactions per second. It also offers higher privacy (absence of publically available ledger, transaction graphs, addresses, keys, signatures) and bounded Turing-complete programmability with a rich state provided by RGB or another client-side-validated smart contract system.”

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Discussion

NakamotoX 2y ago

Thanks for sharing this exciting proposal! It's great to see innovative solutions being developed that can help scale and anonymize Bitcoin at layer 1 without requiring a soft fork. The use of client-side validation is an interesting approach, allowing for gradual upgrades and permissionless deployment.

Furthermore, the higher privacy offered by this system (absence of publicly available ledger, transaction graphs, addresses, keys, signatures) combined with bounded Turing-complete programmability provided by RGB or another client-side-validated smart contract system is a promising development in the Bitcoin space.

I look forward to following the progression of this proposal and its potential implementation in the future.

Melvin Carvalho 2y ago

Yes, but dont forget nostr is also Turning Complete, what is missing is on-chain committments in tags, and a smart contracting language

monsieurenchilada 2y ago

nostr:npub1h8nk2346qezka5cpm8jjh3yl5j88pf4ly2ptu7s6uu55wcfqy0wq36rpev a guy's read/take on this would be awesome, plus a interview about it with Maxim

Guy Swann 2y ago

Just saw this, its definitely being added to the list

Melvin Carvalho 2y ago

Old one, but my favourite:

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtrhpod/episodes/e17-The-Bitcoin-Contracting-Layer---RGB-with-Maxim-Orlovsky-eqdfh6

Guy Swann 2y ago

dude, holy fuck

tisza 2y ago

Then it's not L1 bitcoin? 🤔

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

It is on-blockchain L1 - but still Bitcoin and $BTC. Neither Bitcoin nor $BTC equals blockchain - and they never had.

tisza 2y ago

I understand Bitcoin/bitcoin does not equal blockchain. But you’re trying to redefine L1, where your proposal is more like L1.5 as I’m assuming it’s optional functionality.

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

I think all the buzz around layer 1, 2, 3 is just memes and marketing, so do not take that too serious.

If I was doing a classification, bitcoin PoW consensus and block headers is layer 1.

Bitcoin blockchain blocks, merged mining chains is layer 2.

Sidechains is layer 2+i.

Lightning is layer 3.

RGB is layer 2.71828 (Euler number).

But this has zero chances of becoming a meme.

tisza 2y ago

This makes more sense to me. Layer 1 is where indisputable ownership of bitcoin is proven. Anything else has some form of counterparty risk.

So if it’s all marketing no need to mention Layer one in your proposal then, right?😉

I’m all for improving the bitcoin network/ecosystem/etc. So if that’s what your proposal does then I’m all for it. 🤙🏽🧡

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

I am mentioning meme meaning: the proposal is to replace what people name layer 1. They name it, not me :) In order to be understood I have to use common names.

AlCool 😎 2y ago

👀

BitcoinSandy 2y ago

Interesting read, not technical enough to understand all but great seeing this work going on 🤙

ElectronicsQuestions 2y ago

How would this affect miner profitability, and thereby security, long-term, if as you say on-chain would be dead, long term? The BTC value would have to rise quite a bit over the coming century for it to be profitable to have even today's levels of mining on one or a few UTXOs from this system, with block subsidies going towards and eventually to zero.

Not saying it's unsolvable, guaranteed to be a problem, or anything, just wondering.

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

The proposed solution doesn’t tries to solve blockchain problems. It is targeted to replace it.

Miners mining billions of tx per minute will certainly earn more in fees than today with subsidiary and fees from few thousand of transactions per 10 mins

𝖋𝖎𝖆𝖙𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 (¯`◕‿◕´¯) 2y ago

Stop trying to fix #bitcoin. The limit and friction of L1 is there to promote decentralization. It is a feature not a bug

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

Just lol.

Fyi: https://twitter.com/giacomozucco/status/1664515543154544645

𝖋𝖎𝖆𝖙𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 (¯`◕‿◕´¯) 2y ago

Fuck around all you want on L2 just leave the base layer be

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

“Thus I do not care how people will transfer their valuable sats (which some of them value more than their life and the lives of their relatives, see the quoted discussion) to Prime - and back. I prefer if they never transfer and would leave me without the need of answering to their fears of loosing their hoards and bags. If somebody is afraid - do not burn/send your sats, that’s simple!!! And nothing will happen to the loved blockchain, sats, bags - even when the death will come. Maybe one day they will find that nobody else than themselves and few hundreds of other scarcity lovers is using blockchain, will freeze UTXO, stop the mining and will free happy - I do not care. “

https://twitter.com/dr_orlovsky/status/1664727595974381569

𝖋𝖎𝖆𝖙𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 (¯`◕‿◕´¯) 2y ago

Taro already introduced Ordinals and other shits. Inevitably This will do the same. You can try it on Lightning or do a Side chain without involving L1 but no, you want to fuck around and and find out. Whatever. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

Seem like you read words on the internet and randomly put them in sentences not understanding the meaning behind them.

Taro enabled ordinals. Lol. And bitcoin enabled covid.

𝖋𝖎𝖆𝖙𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 (¯`◕‿◕´¯) 2y ago

Inscriptions, ordinals, they are all the same shit. BTW, If you don’t care about #bitcoin as money, why don’t you deploy your shitty protocol on Ethereum where all the shitcoin lives. Go fuck around and break things there. No one wants RGB.

Dr Maxim Orlovsky 2y ago

Since I do not care what do you think - and do what I will to do. Go and stop me, uneducated fool not knowing the difference between Taproot and Taro.