Came across this mini-documentary made by an independent musician about the pitfalls, negligence and even attack vectors musicians are exposed to when using centralized platforms and distribution services. I had no idea that many of these problems even existed. Unfortunately the filmmaker does a great job at identifying the problem, but does not offer any solutions. For me, it goes to show why we need #nostr, #demu, and #v4vmusic. I almost want to email the filmmaker and let him know this realm exists! Give it a watch if you are an artists or v4vj. https://youtu.be/plleJ0Zv0Ww?si=fXPp1CYvaLKakWy0
Discussion
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It sounds insane but this is what it has come to in the traditional music distribution space. Bad incentives create bad outcomes. But I truly believe #nostr publishing and sats as a filter / signal mechanism will solve most of these problems for independent artists. Until others are ready to leave the old and crazy world behind, we will keep building, zapping and writing music from the heart.
Advertising is to blame for a lot of this I think. Just game the system to make a quick buck. You see this kind of stuff happening in every industry.
Damnā¦ I love Knocked Loose too.
I really donāt know why musicians just donāt embrace peer to peer shit like Bitcoin. It really begs the question why these platforms and record labels will exist going forward if musicians realise they can have a direct line to their fans with nostr and bands can buy music from them directly peer to peer with bitcoin.
1. Most people are below average intelligence, especially musicians š¤£
2. Most people are not technically inclined and do not know the difference between a client, a platform and a protocol
3. Most people go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing
4. Most people prefer a service to do things for them or a centralized platform so they can just focus on music or be lazy
I know right, I feel like thatās new though.
But underground music has always rebelled against the bullshit in music industry, like the velvets, or R Stevie Moore sending direct cassettes albums to anyone who mailed him. He was his own label. It seems natural for savvy indie musicians.
But I think youāre right, musicians are built different now. Itās all done for you on a DaW with AI and people wonder why musics lost a bit of soul haha.
maybe its just society in general has been trained to become more dependent, and to question things less. But if you look at mainstream musicians, decades ago they used to be anti-establishment or whatever, now they are completely dependent on the establishment š
Hopefully this means that only more intelligent people and/or music makes it way to these new platforms. Iām still figuring out which App is best for music. Or for uploading my music I should say. Wavlake seems cool. I see ppl using fountain.fm too. Not sure what else
I bought an iPod and download all my albums again. So much better. If I love an album to bits I buy the record to match it. Downloading is my online shopping for records I want to buy.
I love that. I [finally] own a record player so thatās kind of how I am with vinyl. Iām only buying stuff I love, OR completely random stuff and going along for the ride. Which is how I used to be with CDs
Yes we are figuring out a way to get away from Wavlake to be fully decentralized music (demu). Once you host and control your own RSS feed (like holding your own private keys, or taking your bitcoin off the exchange you bought from) you are truly taking advantage of the censorship resistance. Wavlake I see as being a good bridge between the world of traditional streaming and demu. It makes things easier for the artist and maybe a bit easier for the fan, since you can send them a link and they can just start listening. Also checking out some things like nostr:nprofile1qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcqyps9xsatxmuxw7sdxhm78puj00d07jy2j2eawflm9fpu7754w0ydgjv44mc and nostr:nprofile1qyfhwumn8ghj7ctvvahjuat50phjummwv5q3vamnwvaz7tmzdaehgu3wv9a85ctdduhxuet5qqsfff483fdwhwayp0g64g3rfqgpxtpdsqzthythv9kyz0fuph0nyrs0uhu6a
Are you
Saying like only having fans listen off your own website? Isnāt that an RSS feed?
I mean any app/site technically could censor your music I suppose. But seems Wavlake / fountain is better than mainstream ones. And you connect e Nostr which is cool.
Iāll check out those other 2 you suggested !
Yes, so instead of uploading the music and album art to Wavlake to host and make the rss feed, you can host it somewhere yourself and build the rss feed. I have been experimenting with hosting on a nostr server. Once it has a URL you can take that and input the info into msp.podtards.com and create the rss feed. Then you input the rss feed into podcastindex.org.
It means the fans have to also get behind this. So it could still be a long ways off, but hopefully not. If I post on, Instagram letās say, that Iām leaving Spotify and other mainstream streaming, and tnat my new album is ONLY available on Wavlake, well then I better hope a decent % of ppl go and check it out, AND send me some $. Or I have to be okay with less ppl checking it out.. u fortunately Spotify is huge because itās the EASIEST thing for consumers. Not artists.. it could be a long process, but even the fact that these conversations are happening is the right start and the fact that more & more ppl are realizing the ceo of Spotify is a fuck head- turn it opens pplās eyes to looking at alternatives.
Yes I hear you, fans need to follow the artists over here. That's where releasing exclusive content in the v4v scene might entice some fans to dip their toes in. Maybe you release one single here exclusively, or a bonus unreleased song from your last album's recording sessions. Something like that. And then post a link to Fountain or Wavlake if that's what you use to upload. If all the fans have to do is download an app quick to listen to a bonus song you released that would be a slightly easier user experience.
Yeah it's a slow burn and you just need to get one person at a time to check this new way out.
Some artists will release stuff early in the ValueVerse and then the other platforms later which is cool but I also hate exclusive content but that's just me being a V4V Maxi.
We also need better listening apps because podcasting apps don't make great music apps.
What about say fountain is not optimal for music in your opinion? I know you and nostr:nprofile1qyg8wumn8ghj7cfwdehhxtnvdakz7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqyzsf2t4srftxagc8wrcn9elsgzz6450ewyz95z5478nse53etrkx6hp5hgd have been hard at work making Stablekraft and v4vmusic.com, which I think I am close to being able to link a wallet to the v4v music app on my phone so i can final zap from there.
It's mostly UI/UX stuff. Tracks not playing one after the other, Albums not being displayed as albums, music just being buried in the apps etc.
We have LNBeats.com that's our go to but it can be better so SirLibre and I are taking a shot at it and building what we think a RSS based music app should look like. We're just taking the list of stuff our smallgroup++ has always wanted and building it.
Take SirLibre's playlist maker for example.
Or take itdv.podtards.com for example that I built for nostr:nprofile1qqs2u0tgq980ehcze54e03hhx9xqq52rpx80fv30chtupv8554zzlvspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgqgawaehxw309ahx7um5wghxkmmwd9hxwttyv4nhyctpvchxumqgm9ywu they wanted a player that people could just go to and listen to their music and that's what I built.
I made a site and TJ told me what he wanted it to do and what was broken now he has a custom web player for all his families music.
100% custom and tailored to what he wanted. It's actually the site that launched StableKraft.app which is kind of a catch all for the pieces I've picked up along the way.
Building our own stuff also allows us to work on stuff the bigger apps aren't or don't have time to.
Like the wallets switching during a live music show that SirLibre added to v4vmusic. It's such a key part to the live music shows because it allows the artists to get paid while you're listening live. Only other apps that support it are PodcastGuru and Curiocaster.
Music playlist also. It's been in the PC 2.0 spec forever but some have to work on it and we are to help flush out these ideas and give other apps stuff to also build off of.
I'm also experimenting with a lot of Nostr stuff to flush out ideas and see what works and what doesn't.
That podcasting stuff has been solved imo and the apps are killer but now music needs some love and that's what we're doing. It's also to build out tools so the V4V music shows have more great music to play so this all grows.
It's really a beautiful process building on open specs and protocols where everyone shares ideas and everyone benefits.
Probably why a lot of us have been doing this PC 2.0 thing for 5 years now.
So is that player basically like it only plays whatever songs youāve uploaded to it? Or it gets them from somewhere else?
Yeah that a custom site I made. nostr:nprofile1qqs2u0tgq980ehcze54e03hhx9xqq52rpx80fv30chtupv8554zzlvsprfmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuum4v3hkxctjd3hhxtnrdaksz9mhwden5te0w35kxarpvvhxummnw3erztnrdaks0hy2ja publishe their music on RSS feeds and I just use them to build the site.
All the art, music and info comes from the feeds and I just give it a nice UI.
Interesting! Thanks!
Yeah, UX is a bit of a challenge with Fountain for music.
Yeah thatās a good point! Not too hard to at least get them to listen. And eventually- if this grows then ppl will keep hearing the names and be more likely to check it out
