Yes, it absolutely is. Shabby data is not science though. Distinguishing the difference between real science and not is hard and requires work. It’s much easier to say “trusting the science is bullshit because I found a few outliers by grifters” - sometimes those outlier grifters are presented as “mainstream scientists” .

And I agree with everything you just said, because if you are unqualified to interpret the data, a narrative can be crafted specifically for you and you can’t prove it right or wrong either way.

My point is questioning everything is tiresome, and so people accept a DIY alternative media counter narrative to a mainstream untruth as it seems logical on face value Without doing the work to assess whether it is true or not.

When I say unqualified, what I mean is incompetent. A qualification doesn’t mean anything, but experience does. We as bitcoiners know not to accept any nonsense information about how the whole thing will blow over like a house of cards from some no coiner. And yet, I’m merely pointing out that there is people speaking with authority in the antivax world that have none. And so far there has been no evidence, using the scientific method, to definitively say that vaccines are bad

Reading a modern university textbook is not how you become experienced in any given field of interest. Becoming a scientist is a lifelong interest in a field. What you are describing is exactly what I’m railing against, a narrative crafted as science with all these science looking data points. DIY alternative media is equally as at fault with doing this same crafting of narratives as textbooks, or Wikipedia. And that certainly isn’t the scientific method. What I’m saying is that people unqualified to notice the difference are asserting things on both sides and muddying the public sphere of information. However, scientists, and people of experience in a field, can certainly tell the difference between a narrative and proper data and influencers who poke their head to mess around in a given area cannot in any credible way, yet they talk with authority like they can.

Sorry, I should clarify, you don’t need to be a scientist to interpret science, just have the necessary competence in knowledge to do so. Scientist sounds elitist.

I’m not talking about made up data, which is not real science, and I’m not talking about science communicators distributing the data disguised as a narrative. I also agree that mainstream media presents nonsense. However, equally so does DIY alternative media on the other side of the scale. I’m also not saying that people should blindly follow what they’re told by mainstream media. Studies are fabricated, or bought out. I’m saying that good studies are done every day by good scientists in search of good evidence and good scientists can tell the difference and non scientists can’t. That’s not an appeal to authority, that is just true. If you learn something well, you can distinguish truths and falsehoods in that field better than people who haven’t. Anything else is dunning Krueger fuelled, unfounded arrogance. One also notices that good scientists never speak in absolutes like social media influencers. They suggest “the data leans toward these set of conclusions, which could be disproven given more evidence”

You can “do the work” and become an expert in a given field and verify these things for yourself. This is obviously a huge undertaking, so obviously one must outsource this. You can find trustworthy communicators that only use good data and research as evidence and explain why. You can also question everything and find influencers who will craft any narrative with hodgepodge studies with the information you are searching for and provide zero real verifiable evidence and that seems like science. This can be something that is presented as mainstream media sometimes.

This is why I trust that because very few immunologists and biologists are kicking off about vaccines, and a very large subsection of influencers are, that there is a mismatch in the ability to interpret the data.

Knowledge is power. Just because a mainstream narrative is untrue doesn’t mean the converse counter narrative is true. The world is nuanced, good data exists and it can suggest certain things are evident.

This is why I won’t buy the antivax argument until someone can present me with anything that isn’t just an anecdote or a weaponised narrative masked as science, because being a skeptic means remaining skeptical, even of scepticism.

I completely agree with everything you said. And I am certainly not arguing against skepticism in general.

But similarly to how no bitcoiner would be lectured to by a no coiner about how “Bitcoin won’t work”, I don’t get my information about science from a bitcoiner. Science can only be disproven by new data. It cannot be disproven by fantastic narratives.

I don’t trust science communicators, as they can have agendas, or even follow logical extensions of fiat fuckery, as you suggested - lies built on lies. But I do trust science, until it’s disproven by better science - the same way I trust Bitcoins transparent ledger. It’s observable and repeatedly demonstrable. I also distrust people who pedal narratives disguised as science, chiropractors with nutrition channels, and the like.

If you don’t have your skeptic hat on, you will get stuck in normie land, but science allows us to not have to “question everything” because there is already people who have done the proof of work. So conversely, if you don’t bullshit guard up you will spend your days trying to work out if the earth is flat, when people have clearly solved that mystery a long time ago.

I agree. I love the bitcoin community, but at large It’s a community built on narratives. It is always actively trying to find the next conspiracy after the fiat one turned out to map to reality. You can find conspiracies everywhere if you look in all the wrong places or follow all the wrong influencers.

I don’t mean to be argumentative and love your work guy, just offering a counter opinion as there tends to be none in bitcoin land

I say, Don’t trust verify.

Science has objectively verifiable data. When people laugh and mock at “trust the science” it is meaningless. Data is data is data. Interpreters can be wrong or misleading. Especially people who have no fucking idea how to interpret data. Brett Weinstein, Joe Rogan and weekender DIY “science enthusiasts” haven’t somehow “figured it all out”.

That’s not to say that mainstream media wasn’t a shitshow, or that politicians acted rashly or even insidiously. But I don’t buy this mainstream bitcoiner black pill, anti vax angle that “everyone’s lying to you man”. The world is obviously more nuanced than that and not everything is a psy-op to be figured out, just because fiat money appears to be.

Well, firstly I could say the same to you. This is Lyn’s thread you’re rifling off about all this nonsense on and I’m sure she doesn’t appreciate it.

Secondly, if you aren’t a cunt, you are in fact being a bit of cunt by being quite rude yourself. Im sure youre cognisant that you craft your comments to be very specific and highly offensive to the people that they’re about. I’m not against free speech, you can say and think whatever you like. But In Australia we don’t find it that rude to point that out to each other when they are being a cunt about things, it’s not a big deal and actually quite appropriate sometimes.

Ohhh right - you’re just a cunt ha ha

I never said anything about trans people. I just think it’s very funny you don’t believe in gay people.

I always play this as background music to read - today I started “player of games”.

Have never read banks before.

I always think no pussy footing will be great background music for reading but goddamn that guitar playing and just wonderful sound draws you in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWyjSENoVA

Explaining bitcoin to normies is kind of like explaining why the Beatles are the best band to somebody who has never heard music.

If you lead with the lyrics to I am the walrus, or the fact they all once had bowl cuts, or the equivalent in bitcoin speak, you’ve already tuned them out forever.

So unbelievably dumb

Marriage is a made up construct. Roles are a made up construct. Husband is a made up construct. Responsibility is a made up construct.

There is no roles that actually mean anything

Gay people aren’t the tooth fairy mate

Been revisiting the shins these holidays. I can’t say I love all their stuff as much as I did when I was a teenager, but jeez some of it (oh, inverted world especially) is just great. Very skate video-esque

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlAu_oD5LuU

The not talked about “VU” album which the tapes were lost and then found is my favourite one!

I really don’t see how these power law nay sayers can dispute this level of research and reasoning with such incredible, well thought out rebuttals, such as “nuh uh!”