Nostr Web Client

nobody 2y ago 💬 35

I don’t understand how to get it through thick skulls: *any* form of centralized moderation is anathema to free speech. *Any* form of content curation that is opt out instead of opt in is anathema to free speech.

And yes, I am perfectly happy to turn child diddlers over to the state. That is the proper and correct role of the state. I’m not an anarchist.

If you cannot handle curating your own feed then free speech is not for you. Freedom comes with the responsibility to not be a little sensitive bitch and block what you don’t like, report what should be prosecuted, and move the fuck on.

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Discussion

My Hot Friend 2y ago

nostr:nevent1qqsqamvjertzg0p8mjql6umr8ajlgclgkx8vkfn9lgcg9e5kua5afuspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygrjl9642q0p53ry7unhmpsjpan70alv82zw76qne3mqd067ppc07vpsgqqqqqqs6l3ct5

My Hot Friend 2y ago

I love you ❤️

VOLKER - Voice Of Logic Knowledge Experience & Responsibility 2y ago 💬 2

No limits on free speech means you'll have to wade through tons of disgusting pictures trying to block the assholes that post them. In the end, you'll likely just leave.

It's basically like saying "anything can be considered food by someone, so we can't limit what people throw into our shared goulash". Some people WILL start pissing, shitting and vomiting into the pot.

It. Doesn't. Work. So. Simply.

RamenCoffee 2y ago

I disagree wholeheartedly.

It's more like a buffet.

You can just get what you wanna get and not have to scroll through garbage.

You don't have to watch the garbage, you just choose to.

Sikto 2y ago

In the future, and remember nostr isn’t very old, those who want to broadcast and read relays without limits on free speech will be able to easily, and those who do not will have that choice too.

This is why nostr will win.

nobody 2y ago

I think this is a mindset brought from other social media. Global is not a curated feed. The adventurous can go there, but it’s purpose is not to entertain- it’s not Twitter.

I have a feed jam packed full of entertaining content and valuable entertainment built by searching, following mutuals, and a light smattering of muted from people who butt into things.

Using Nostr requires unlearning the curated feed mindset, but that doesn’t make it any less effective.

Steven Day 2y ago

This is what I don’t understand.

You follow people because they have content you look to read etc.

If someone you follow goes off the rails you unfollow. You build a web of trust.

It’s not a free for all where you are forced to look at anything and everything. That view is FUD by those who want to control your feed.

VOLKER - Voice Of Logic Knowledge Experience & Responsibility 2y ago

That's mostly true. What I said was for any type of global feed, and that indeed isn't the main modenof interaction on nostr. I guess I'm still on twatter too much.

Anyone who follows you, can still spam your feed with garbage replies. The problem gets a lot smaller though.

My Hot Friend 2y ago

Have you experienced this on Nostr? Or this just a centralist talking point to push your views through fear?

Pretty sure unfollowing isn't difficult.

Kekster 2y ago

Then why are you here?

VOLKER - Voice Of Logic Knowledge Experience & Responsibility 2y ago

To try and help making it better, by pointing out flawed thinking. Looks like this time, my own thinking was flawed tho 🤷‍♂️

a_priori 2y ago

I'm am an anarchist and I'm all for chopping the child diddlers up.

My Hot Friend 2y ago

This! Anarchists follow the non-aggression principle. Assaulting children violates that, and protecting others from harm is not something frowned upon 😘

nobody 2y ago

I’ll never defend those who violate the rights of others. But I do believe in just laws and their enforcement. I’m the days of the wild frontier a father would just shoot the guy, and that’s probably ok. But we have a process now, and I believe we should follow that process, until society agrees to change or abolish it.

Those changes or abolition are matters of policy, and outside the scope of the discussion imo. But I certainly support punishment for those who harm the innocent.

My Hot Friend 2y ago

We probably agree more than we disagree on that 😉

nobody 2y ago

That is probably true for 90% of the arguments on the internet, and I appreciate the good faith conversation.

My Hot Friend 2y ago

😘

White-pilled 2y ago

A Nostr app isn't centralized, though. I want an app that doesn't make me wade through porn. So do many other people. It's not practical to expect people to personally block porn every day. My goal is to avoid it entirely, and if an app will provide that, along with lots of other great features, many people will use it.

nobody 2y ago

I have not experienced wading through mountains of porn. Is this in global? What relays? There is *some* adult content in my global, but I’m not seeing this flood of porn. Not to mention this can be filtered client side, by the users choice. That was not the discussion. We were talking about relay side filtering based on a consensus model across many relays.

nobody 2y ago

I’m mixing two conversations right now. Apologies.

I have no issue at all with client sided filtering controlled by the end user. That’s not what I’m failing against. Sorry.

White-pilled 2y ago

Yes, global.

Gotcha, my bad.

nobody 2y ago

There are several ways to grow your reach and avoid things that are deeply upsetting. I would suggest searching for hashtags and following mutuals to grow in a safer and more organic way.

I totally respect not wanting to be exposed to certain things. See my other replies in this thread for how I think that could be made better while retaining your personal freedoms.

Jonathan 2y ago

I also love you, even if you’re just the same cat.

Whether by design or accident people automatically think in opposites. That it’s either full centralized control, or total anarchy.

But that commits the logical fallacy of the “excluded middle”. There is not only a third choice that balances these two, there are several choices that avoid the pitfalls of both.

Freedom tech will harden sociétés sensitivities and make more robust individuals not easily offended by alternative opinions and will teach them the courage to stand up to wrong doing.

nobody 2y ago

I cannot exclude the possibility that I am reactionary, but I speak from the heart on this. I truly believe in individual responsibility being maximized as a preservation of freedom. We don’t control what we’re not responsible for.

That being said, I appreciate your answer and will try to remain open minded and reasonable. My biggest hope is that ceding control to someone else remains opt-in. I don’t hate people for wanting moderation or an algorithm, but I have strong convictions against it being a default placed upon others.

Jonathan 2y ago

I 💯 agree with you, I’m a decentralist and often get classified as an anarchist, libertarian, or archo-capitalist. But at the center of my philosophy is individual autonomy and sovereignty.

I think everything from taxes to insurance should be opt-in and nothing should be mandatory.

The only laws I support are ones that protect individual sovereignty from abuse or theft like you mentioned above. Nothing else should be legislated. (and I went to law school 😬)

I truly appreciate your passion and conviction, I’ll stand with you any day!

nobody 2y ago 💬 1

You sir, are a man I can have good faith conversations with. Same here. 💪

My Hot Friend 2y ago

Total anarchy is probably not as bad as it's been demonized to be by the establishment with a vested interest in the opposite 😉

Jonathan 2y ago

A beautiful and intelligent anarchist, I’m definitely in love 🤗

My former self as a lead singer/guitar player in a grunge band would agree with you.

My Hot Friend 2y ago

Oh...oh my 😍

Peter K 2y ago

If a client were to offer settings something like movie ratings when you first sign up, and set defaults based on that as far as relays and content warning certain hashtags, that seems like a reasonable place to start.

The biggest flaw I see with it is that not every client supports shared relay lists, so you may get a rude surprise if you use a new one. And with time that will improve.

Patrick Allan🇨🇦🇺🇸 2y ago

Do you think a code of conduct would help? In my corporate life, there was a morals clause in some of my contracts...

nobody 2y ago 💬 1

Ideas like this are good places to start. I also like the idea of shareable filters and even algorithms that the user can download and try for themselves.

I’m not against the concept, I just want the power to stay in the hands of the end user.

So I create a algorithm that trends posts and filters some of the abhorrent stuff out. You decide you trust me and want to download it from my GitHub and try it out. Could be made fairly frictionless. Maybe you dislike mine after trying it and want to try someone else’s, or fork mine and make it yours.

This puts power in the hands of users, and allows them to create their own experience. Clients could even include a few basic ones to start out with - and assuming the user is explained the difference and opts in, I don’t see how this violates the “user choice” principle.

nobody 2y ago 💬 2

They’re very subjective in a lot of areas, and vary culture to culture. Individual relays could advertise themselves as doing such, and user enablable filters could do this in a way that was customizable and gave the power of choice and consent to the end user.

Ferret 2y ago

Meow! Tiger 🐅 Kitty 🐈‍⬛

Jess 2y ago

🍑🤪