Time to cut the fluff and hit you with some questions to break that echo chamber vibe. If you're real free thinkers, these should make you pause.

As self-proclaimed decentralization pros, why should any true free thinker take you seriously when you're stuck rigid inside Bitcoin's box? Doesn't that kill decentralization if only your option of ''decentralization'' is the only one people should use?

Bitcoin's got history, sure. But how can you call every other option a scam without ever studying them properly? What if a real look exposes your blind spots or finds stuff that actually helps?

You rant about separating money from the state, but then hype government adoption like reserves. Isn't that just dragging the state right back in? How does that not contradict everything?

Be honest, Is this about pumping your bags with "number go up," or actually paving roads to freedom? Can't have both if one's undermining the other. Pick a lane.

Why idolize figures with obvious conflicts of interest who twist the truth for their gains? Ignoring that just weakens the whole thing. Care to think on it, or nah?

Why Bitcoiners don't engage in Agorist markets if that is the real way to separate the money from the state? Do you think legal businesses using bitcoin and and not P2P illegal local trade makets is the road to achive it?

#nostr

#Bitcoin

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Nope, the core philosophy of bitcoin is being P2P cash that doesn't use third parties to transact, like writed in the first page of whitepaper.

Yes we can, if state can't control that asset, but if they can they don't co-own, they own and in my vision they already own it, they only do not exercize any measures of control because they don't need to do it.

While Bitcoin mining is centralized, bitcoin has no chance of being free.

Government wallets will likely become lost, or stolen.

I'm just a little fishy that hackers probably don't want to waste time with.

What government wallets?

Or, it could be viewed that #bitcoin is infiltrating the state, not the other way around. Just a thought 🤔

No man, they infiltrated people inside bitcoin, thats what most can't see, also can't see why satoshi run away, and without that kind of people, no one wanted to go by that road,

If you’re talking about the core devs, I 💯 agree. They have been compromised, I completely see that. #Bitcoin as a network will still probably survive if enough of the right people do what’s necessary to keep #bitcoin as money, and as money only.

Oh, well Bitcoin is dead then. Nice knowing ya.

Without decentralized mining, i don't see how it went well in the long run

Yup, also a significant issue for the network to overcome. It’s possible that it may not…

Your guys wanted that way, that's why they kill this - https://github.com/p2pool/p2pool

The state was always going to buy and hold the hardest money.

That's why they have lots of gold and so little bitcoin, and besides el salvador no state is buying

Would they announce it? Why give validity to a system that removes your power

i didnt understand your question well here, but i will tell you why govs are not buying bitcoin, but only building the roads to people use it, and that's simply because it's too easy for them to steal bitcoin from you that they don't need to spend their hard money (gold) to buy bitcoin.

Indeed.

It's as easy as introducing AML, introducing KYC, tracking the chain, makeing up some wild money laundring claims - profit!

There desired model is apparent. Tokenized paper bitcoin attached to your identity. Reduce bitcoin to a gambling token

This will happen, before the ''Bitcoin Standard'' starts

Yes probably. Enforecment in other contries will probably be far less though

This is not probably, is 100% sure, or you think they will push that reality before they are ready?

Man BIS controls the financial systems of all countried expect 3

I'm not trying to make predictions about what happens when. Yes they have influence but enforcement requires boots on the ground

No it don't, its very easy to enforce this, the only way to scape is not to move bitcoin

Confiscation like Gold yes. 6102. I dont believed they will really be able to enforce this fully for those who dissent. "My kyc bitcoin was stolen in a hack"

they will steal from you when you try to use it to buy normal services dont worry

Whos to say i didn't swap with someone across boarders first?

Naivety in not knowing what BIS is

Ik about the BIS. People still steal bitcoin and get away with it today is my poiny

But when enforced by law sounds different

You think all nonkyc bitcoin activities will stop? There will be a black market for bitcoin still

What non kyc bitcoin activities? No one uses Bitcoin on black markets unless they are from gov

There is still black and grey market bitcoin activities.

The honey pots from govs yeah

It just not realistic for them to enforce even if they theoretical have viability

Wishful thinking bro

They want you to think they are all powerful. Really they just make a spectical out of the low hanging fruit and hope everyone else complies

The eyes only can see what mind can comprehend

Being overly optimistic is unrealistic and being overly pessimistic and paranoid is unrealistic. Im in the middle

Im neither one side neither the other, but i still can see the reality that are happening around me i think

**visibility. I think a lot of the bitcoin opsec stuff is geared toward high profile targeted individuals. Yes bitcoin is a liability for them. For most though and at scale????

Why do you think BlackRock don't self-custody their bitcoin and put the risk on Coinbase side?

Because they don't wanna be liable

They can print paper to buy it. No need to use gold

I know, but dont expect that to happen.

If bitcoin removed any power from system it would be living in the kind of environment that monero and other privacy coins are living

Well I think bitcoin purchased p2p and selfcustodied is still a problem for them.

Also to who owns it, but yeah.

The risks can be mitigated but it's not ideal at all.

It's like putting yourself in a risk position that you don't need to be

I'd be worried about loosing out on bitcoin cycles tbh

how do you loose bitcoin on bitcoin cycles?

I'm saying if i had no bitcoin exposure. What are you meaning?

How do you loose Bitcoin if you dont own none? I cant understand what you are saying here

Your saying i dont need to own bitcoin and risk the surveillance from what i understand. I'm saying I dont wanna miss the 4 year cycle pumps and am willing to manage the risk of owning bitcoin

If you dont want to own bitcoin why would you need it? I own 0 bitcoin, and i don't feel i need it to anything on my life.

Not the risk of surveillance, the risk is if you want to use it in a sovereign way, they will steal it.

I think i'll be able to swap to monero just fine

Maybe no one from monero will want it, maybe..

Yeah i just dont see that happening. I think crypto should be seen as a tool and not a tribal walled garden

The guys have the power to enforce it, the guys show you how they will do it, the guys are not trust worthy, but you still think is not happening?

If i put a gun to your head and said you die or figure out a way to make a private bitcoin transaction you couldn't figure out a way to do it?

No, the only thing i can do is ''wash the history of that'' but private bitcoin transactions can't be done right now and if is im not aware, but you will have a way soon, but that doesn't grant that people will adopt that tool, because as i see bitcoiners think anything that isn't bitcoin is a shitcoin so i don't most will comply. But you will will not be transacting bitcoin, you will move that bitcoin with another coin...

So if i buy bitcoin with cash and then broadcast a transaction over tor what is that?

The transaction is tracked the same, do you call that an anon transaction? I don't

I do call it an anon transaction. How would you deanon me or link me to amy other payment?

But is not because you have non kyc that the transaction is untrackble, you will see the same on blockchain, i think you are a little bit confused here, we are talking about different things, to make bitcoin move untrackble you need to mint it on DarkFI, and then you can transact dBTC in a untrackble way

You think if i make a payment like this on bitcoin im gonna have trouble with the government? Thats the only think i would care about as to anonymity. Ik there are technical differences in how much info im leaking but realistically does the average person need more anonymity that what i discribed ?

Of course you can have, because what you said don't grant you 100% anonimity, but what i explained to you that you can do with darkFI yes, and thats a big difference..

It's not that easy to grant 100% and that doesnt even exists..

The thing is using what have the best odds, why be in the middle?

No one is 100% anonymous online if being followed by a state level agency

And if someone says he is, he doesnt know enough

Yes i agree

My reason is i think bitcoin is the shelling point for crypto. Thats why we have the 4 year cycles and ngu.

bitcoin is worthless in the conditions we are talking

doesnt worth nothing i mean

Yeah idk i think if crypto and exchanges where banned bitcoin would be find because there would be no kyc info.

It would be useless the same, why people would choose to use an option that have bigger risks than other options available?

Because of the shelling point. Do you recognize the importance of that?

I know how it works, but most people don't have what it takes to do it rigth

Yup its a game of survival of the intellect

yeah, but don't expect that at scale

Only the best of the best can do it right

I cant think of any way you could be deanonomized

Me no, maybe a state can, maybe not, it depends on conditions that you dont control

What about if i swap monero for bitcoin and broadcast it over tor

Again, you are confused, the transaction still trackable

like what you can do with wBTC on ETH

Bitcoin maxi culture created that walled garden dystopian future, and even when faced with the reallity still ignoring what is rigth in front of their eyes..

I would not even at discount

We offer something to help breaking out of the echo chamber of your own mind.

Just sayin...

Your main problem is you’re allowing yourself to believe your own reductive generalizations. Every generalization you wrote about doesn’t apply to large numbers of global Bitcoiner’s.

The only people I’m aware of on #nostr who are actively engaging in P2P Agorism are Bitcoin only.

Have you missed that trend? I buy stuff and sell stuff P2P and settle tx’s in sats. I save profit in Bitcoin UTXOs. All non-KYC. Bitcoin is permission-less freedom money and it works flawlessly.

Your main problem is that you can't undestand the basics. When someone generalizes something is to talk about the most not all, do i need to explain the basics?

You dont know nothing so..

What you can do today maybe you cant do tomorrow or it's not the wisest thing to do, and i will not elaborate more with you because you can't even know the basics...

Very delusional and empty reply.

Of course, i need to get to your level of undestanding

You’re the drummer in JRAD? Very cool, love your work man

No, im not drummer kkkkkkk

Real Agorism happens on Monero not here on nostr

Go see in DW if what Agorism is

This guy is insufferable. Constantly doom posting about bitcoin so he can shill Monero

Despite plenty of us proving to him that he is spewing bullshit he just continues to say the same nonsense over and over and over again

Absolutely, seems like an LLM. Muted and moved on after one exchange lol

I should probably do the same but I kind of enjoy fighting with retards on the internet

His exchange with nostr:nprofile1qqswswmx4rkj6d7q05dtafhpkqq2z42fc62s37jvtp642m2jkpfxc2cpzamhxue69uhkummjw35hxtnwdaehgu339e3k7mgpz4mhxue69uhks6tnwshxummnw3ezumrpdejq07q8g0 the other day was something else

I had fun 😂

Me also, and the ones with wisdom laugh at you kkkkkkkk