Liquid Network

Liquid Network is extremely undervalued. People are still thinking about coinjoins and arguing among themselves when they have a much cheaper method.

Remember that transactions on Liquid are confidential, only the signer of the transaction and the receiver can know what amount has been sent, for them Borromean ring signatures are used.

Manual for Dummies:

- You make a peg-in of the amount you want to anonymize, if you have an elements node (Liquid node) or use the decentralized Exchange Tdex the cost will be only the cost of the chain transaction, if you do not have any of the above available you can make a peg-in with sideswap for 0.1%.

- Once you have converted your btc inside Liquid to L-BTC you make a peg-out with sideswap, do not make a peg-out of the same total amount that you have made the peg-in and try to space it in time if there are several. The cost of the sideswap peg-out is 0.1% plus the fee of the chain transaction.

One way to avoid also performing the peg-in is to buy L-BTC directly for example on Bisq.

In the best case, the whole operation will cost you the fee of two blockchain transactions and 0.1% in the worst case 0.2% plus the two blockchain transactions, I recommend you to set up your own node elements or use the decentralized Exchange tdex to perform the peg-in without permission and avoid that 0.1%.

When you make a peg-out you receive btc that are retained in the federation, the allocation is random, so seen from the outside, Liquid is like a classic mixer but without centralized custody as it is federated, your coins enter the federation and when you leave with a peg-out you are given other coins that are not your initial coins thus breaking the heuristics of your initial coins.

All this is done without any KYC, you can increase the anonymity using tor or a vpn in sideswap so that there is no trace of your ip.

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Discussion

give liquid a try...

its a federated sidechain with 1min blocktime

and NO reward for "miners" only fees

confirmation is 2min max

and you can swap between onchain, lightning and liquid

here:

https://boltz.exchange/

and here:

https://classic.coinos.io/login

use with caution...

nostr:note19q327peucsw9rvzckprt8fr9z0zmqh82zkn8dgqwul2tzgxlckzss2vw7k

I gotta be honest, I still don't see the purpose of liquid. Do people actually use it?

liquid seems to target large transactions or family hedge funds. I think that is apparent in the assets available like bonds. That said it seems like it would be a great solution for everyday users if it were more accessible. So far the only way I know how to access it is through green wallet

Super helpful. I've been learning more and more about coinjoins, mixers etc but keep coming back to Blockstreams Liquid. Yes, there's trust involved. But there also is with hot wallet mixers. This is where Liquid wins, in my limited understanding of the backend code... blockstream is Adam Backs, and he's super legit from all accounts. An old school cypherpunk. IMO Liquid is low key very powerful. The fees are ridiculously cheap and it seems like a decent way to coinjoin.

I keep coming back to this. Sparrow and Wasabi wallet seem like decent iterations but without having the acumen to vet the back end code, I'd gravitate to trustchain of an original Bitcoin guy like Adam. Throw this post of Stacker and I'm sure it'll garner a tonne of Sats.

This sounds good,but it sounds confusing...

Are notes/post/twits synanymous?or what differs from another?

For privacy I trust Monero way more than all these complex methods. If you make a little mistake you fuck up everything. No thanks

Monero has had many bugs that have screwed everything up, one fairly recently.

This bug has now been solved, and in any case the percentage of being affected is really low, almost irrelevant if you waited hours or days to spend your monero

I had heard about Liquid several years ago, but basically nobody was talking about do assumed it was just another random project that wouldn't go anywhere.

Now, it sounds like it had a solid use case for us: #privacy

nostr:note19q327peucsw9rvzckprt8fr9z0zmqh82zkn8dgqwul2tzgxlckzss2vw7k

Good idea.

Green wallet from blockstream, you can create there bitcoin, Lightning, HW and liquid wallets, at one place.

I use also 🤖 robosats P2P Lightning exchange on my ⚡️ node under Tor, think this should be non-kyc sats.

Liquid sucks, use Monero

How do you get monero anyway? Without linking it to yourself.

Localmonero.co if you have cash, if you have crypto, one of the non-kyc exchanges on kycnot.me

When you peg out of liquid, doesn’t it show the same addresses that received the L-btc as inputs going to the base chain?

No

So if you buy non kyc off robosats or bisq then stack those sats into liquid. When the utxo is big enough, you can move all of it out of liquid and into cold storage. Isn’t that level of privacy just as good as doing a coinjoin?

With such a procedure you break the heuristics of your initial coins, as good as a coinjoin, for me better, because the addresses of the liquid federation have a higher chainalysis score than those of a coinjoin like samourai or wasabi.

I’m assuming that a higher chainalysis score means that it’s more difficult for chainalysis to track and identify you correct?

If you really want privacy you'd use Monero!

Coinjoining when moving in and out of Bisq is such a pain. I really like the idea of just buying L-BTC instead. That said, I just checked and there are no current offers to buy L-BTC. Not sure if anyone would take an offer if created. Also, seems like you can't buy L-BTC directly with fiat. You have to get BTC first.

As an explanatory note of why the traceability with sideswap is broken (because some have asked) when performing peg-in and peg-out is because they use a temporary hot wallet, therefore when performing peg-in there is no link between your btc and the l-btc issued and the same happens when performing peg-out.

If you exceed the amount of the temporary wallet you will know it because you will get 102 confirmations instead of 2 and in the same way when performing the peg-out the time will be longer than two confirmations, between 20 and 60 minutes.

You will know all this before confirming the transaction and you can check it in the liquid mempool to make sure there is no linkage.

nostr:note19q327peucsw9rvzckprt8fr9z0zmqh82zkn8dgqwul2tzgxlckzss2vw7k

What Liquid wallet do you recommend?

Really the easiest and fastest way to buy private non-kyc coins is Robosats and Lightning. No need to use Liquid at all.

Don't make Blockstream games... promoting their failed experiement, that now want to bring it back to life.

Liquid is not a L2... is a sidechain.

Liquid was a good intention. It was coming up early in the block size wars as a proposal for exchanges, to have some kind of interoperable network to move funds between them, faster and cheaper than BTC onchain, but still using BTC.

I kinda agree with that use case. A federation that is moving funds privately between them.

But then LN was launched and come in force and Liquid kinda lost the use case.

The block size war was also over, segwit in place and onchain mempool liberated, so even the exchanges that were excited about Liquid, they were still preferring to do it over onchain as usual.

LN got more and more grip and Liquid was slowly forgotten and became useless.

Now Blockstream, want to push people into using it as it would be a "cheapest and fastest" way instead of LN, because they do not want to see it terminated (as nobody is using it). In the end they put a lot of effort and money to build it.

IMHO they should go back to the original idea to be used for private entities and not pushed to large masses of users.

Now all those onchain maxis want to use Liquid instead of preparing in time, with calm new LN channels. That's why this crazy mania with Liquid. But as usual when the onchain fees are going down, Liquid use is going to meaningless until zero.

A TLDR:

the only use case for liquid is this

I understand your point, but in my case I only want liquid to anonymize bitcoins and at most have a small cache in cases of high fees to be able to continue managing my LN channels.

What are your thought on Liquid with Peerswap?

I still want to like Liquid, but even if it wasn't custodial (ok, federation, tiny bit better than average CEX), it is basically equivalent to doubling BTC block size. So if most people start using Liquid because BTC fees are too high, then shortly Liquid fees will be almost as high. Doesn't really help scaling in the long term.

Great explanation…thnx🙏🏼

Does btc you get this way get flagged in the same way post whirpool UTXOs get?

Yes, they could mark everything that comes out of the sideswap wallet, at the moment it doesn't happen as it has a very low volume.

Thx