From the standpoint of genuine intellectual curiosity, I’ll would love to hear this argument framed around recording artists.
It isn’t hard to conceptualize the concept framed around FOSS, but I’ve not heard (would love if it has) this laid out for say, artists streaming on Tidal.
nostr:note1h27fjquh6m4dkzvw2f43nzktw7hz2zgemrj0zhkmm7ql8adh48rstvgwxs
Torrent the music, tip the artists, or if the artists are no longer with us then tip their heirs or other people connected to the music
Digital street buskers? Maybe V4V…
But imagine a scenario where an artist battles it out in the trenches, finally gets a hit, and a future Weird AL (or Weird A.I.) comes along and has an even bigger hit off the work without compensating the original artist.
Every song builds on the work of other artists without compensating them. Every musician has to hear good music to get good
If the AI version is so much better everyone prefers it over yours, so be it
Nostr's job is to make sure the AI version doesn't get all the audience just by manipulating the feed while the human version is actually more worth listening to 📈
Sure, ideas certainly don’t happen in a vacuum.
“Prefers” really isn’t the argument. Reach, distribution, network effect can game user preference.
Yeah, nostr is great signal filter.
Platforms like Facebook will help people steal music where their version gets way more audience than something they ripped off without really making it much better
But hopefully people seeing that happen will naturally migrate to nostr and it will happen less
Without IP laws, people will feel more responsible for their own choices and less like "the corporations are in charge and have all the money and nothing I do matters"
“Without IP laws, people will feel more responsible for their own choices...”
That’s certainly a positive take, there’s a cynical one as well. It’s all so layered on top of a lot of tectonic socioeconomics.
The cynical side is that it might not be enough, but IP laws definitely don't work so this would be worth a try if we ever get leaders who are serious about leadership (not our current figureheads whose entire goal would be to make sure the new system is even worse than IP laws)
Probably not a top down thing right? More likely that technology/innovation just outright breaks the law and eventually nullifies its reason for existence.
Good point, figureheads probably wouldn't even be talking about abolishing IP law if we the people weren't abolishing it ourselves
Let’s see him give up all his ip
IP will end itself anyways. The pattern comes before the thing appears on earth, someone finding the pattern doesn't make them own it. I'm expecting a more localized product first. Less musicians playing music for the people of their region, with stories that are actually about them.
IP will end itself anyways. The pattern comes before the thing appears on earth, someone finding the pattern doesn't make them own it. I'm expecting a more localized product first. Less musicians playing music for the people of their region, with stories that are actually about them.
(Is this thought mine now? I mean I guess it belongs to everyone.)
Here’s another IP take to ponder.
Are we cool with Stephen King publishing the Bitcoin Standard and J.K. Rowling publishing Broken Money with zero attribution or compensation to Ammous and Alden?
Maybe those authors make the work more accessible to the masses and are simply better writers.
Blockchain registration and private agreements would solve this problem. It also might be worth looking into common law copyright and common law trademarks.
Harry Potter and The Timechain 🤭
Information is non-rivalrous
What does that mean?
Not sure how, but someone with more insight could probably figure out a way to timestamp work and therefore at least date it. Anyone who's interested could then search who did it first. Maybe IP is simply unnatural and trying to enforce it is like telling water to flow upwards.
There has been some talks of a V4V music license but I don't think it's really gone anywhere.
It's on GitHub somewhere lol
I suspect most artists will make more money with V4V than IP.
Perhaps they will 🤷♂️
I haven't seen any evidence from Nostr (yet) that V4V will lead to a living wage for artists. I've been going around all the creators I can find (those that seem to be attempting to build a V4V business here) and looking at their zap income; often the daily amount is not even enough for even a morning coffee.
It feels like maybe we'd instead go back in time to live shows being the primary revenue source for many.
There is a huge gulf between the status quo and V4V.
A lot more to go, but hopefully we’re headed in the right direction.
I feel like it might needed to be kickstarted here with subsidies, as controversial as that’d be.
Current #V4V UX lacks a ton of imagination + has another ton of barriers to entry.
Creators can monetize on here, but they need scarce stuff for sale too:
Time is also scarce
That's my point, yes.
A Creator's time and attention are scarce. So they can have a Price that is discovered. Either via him/her setting that price or via him/her only interacting with certain zap sizes.
Maybe, but let's be honest, people here are pretty cheap.
You look at some of the better longform stuff (that is before longform all broke) and it's stuff that would have a great amount of time to research and write, isn't available anywhere else (totally exclusive), addresses primary concerns of the nostr community—and still it gets zapped here barely enough to buy a small bag of sunflower seeds.
At this point, pretty sure there's no type of written content that one could post to nostr regularly and be reimbursed at minimum wage for the time it took to write it. At least consistently over months.
Best way to earn sats from posts is to be famous elsewhere first and say hello. But that wears off after 5 posts.
For > minimum wage, you need #communikeys.
It's both a place you can put walls around (scarcity) and a place where it's 10x easier to highlight #V4V supporters.
Looking at the current data from Twitter-clone land is depressing AF if you can't imagine the entirely new Creator UX we can build on this protocol.
Agreed. People are not only cheap, most people don't read anything but the titles and give nothing as a reward for work, unless you're continuously marketing yourself like hell with a budget (which is mostly non existent in the btc space anyway)
https://allesvoorbitcoin.substack.com/p/why-value4value-in-bitcoin-is-a-scam
Yup. Also Value for Value is the silliest phrase.
1. Take a concept as old as time
2. Give it a new name that also works as a snappy acronym
3. Promote it as a bleeding-edge concept
4. Keep people focussed on the arcane minutiae so they don't zoom out and break the spell
So many of those around these days.
Wow. People hodling bitcoin cheer for IP laws.
Whoa somebody woke up with a hot take! 😂
I know, right?! 🤭
If the art has value then the fans will zap the artist accordingly. The problem is they don't became said art is shitty on average.
The ones who think the artists will starve if not for the fiat royalties, they don't understand how the sausage is made and what powers said sausage factory.
I'm mostly amazed they found bitcoin in the first place. Buy hey, half the bitcoins are held by individuals so someone has got to crack in the coming decades.
The same people that go on and on about incentives being the key to everything, then try to conjure up an incentive to pay for the drugs after you take them 😂
