Maybe... I just have a hard time making anything from that perspective make sense to me. But I do think people need a north star & I think the Jesus story, with the previously described message of truth vs status, fits that role.
Discussion
a lot of people will go to their graves telling themselves it was just a story.
I mean, I think everything is a miracle. I don't think God has to break his own laws to perform them. He makes grapes grow & makes people who turn them into wine. And I don't think he gave me a brain just to demand that I renounce it's primary function.
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Will pray for you Jeff. I seen you around for quite a while I think. I love my fellow Bitcoiners and pray we all become Brothers in Christ.
I consider myself a Christian, even when people like you imply that I'm not.
By people like me do you mean Christians?
Didn't you say you don't believe Jesus saves? Did I misunderstand? Are you a universalist (all go to heaven)?
Yes, there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who also feel the need to go out of their way to tell me that I am not one.
I have no idea what happens after we die. I think what's more important is whether people are creating heaven or hell right here on earth. I also think (as the bible says) Jesus was trying to bring heaven to earth. I think the story of Jesus could save anyone who take the time to understand it.
But I don't think just saying you love Jesus is some sort of magic spell that grants people access to some sort of paradise after death. As far as I can tell, nothing in the Bible suggests that heaven is some sort of escape from earth.
Oddly enough, a lot of people who call themselves Christians also say that they want to be taken when Jesus returns, but it actually says that few will remain like Noah, implying that it's not the good who will be taken. The Bible also says a lot about how people will misunderstand everything. I definitely think there is a great deal of misunderstanding.
Amen brother
We are all fallen. That is why so many people interpret the Bible differently. But there is one truth, one correct interpretation. I am sure no one knows it all on this earth. But there are fundamental things that Christians believe that you don't seem to believe. I think that is why some tell you that. I don't think any real Christian would tell you that just to "get you" or be mean.
Some of your questions are already answered in the Bible. I would suggest to study it more, more importantly believe it. And most importantly, live it.
If you truly believe you will repent. We show God we love Him by doing His will and following His commands. You can tell true believers and non believers by their "fruits".
Matthew 7:16-20 KJV
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him."
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 16:31
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household."
I love the "know them by their fruits" refrences/passages. They were actually one of the keys to me realizing that there is a lot of metaphor used in the texts. When Jesus recognizes Nathaniel by the shade of the tree under which he sits, it is a reference to "know them by their fruit." When Jesus "kills the fig tree" I think he is actually just predicting that Israel (the fig tree) is falling into economic & political corruption.
When I point out that we are finite beings with a limited amount of time, resources, & even mental space, which makes it literally impossible to love everyone the way you love a sibling or friend. Churchers will then tell me that there are many different Greek words that we translate all to just "love," which is basically proof that we have translation problems. But somehow they isolate that fact from everything else they already believe about the Bible.
I know a lot of Churchers who have done nothing but drive people away from the church because instead of trying to actually understand a complicated text, & deal with honest questions, they insist on a flat interpretation that allows them to judge & condemn the people around them. More often than not they tell people they will pray for them as a way to imply they need help. They tell people to "repent & ask for forgiveness" as though they are the ones who judge & determine who needs to be better. If we judge people by their fruits there are a lot of Churchers who are not good Christians IMO. It is those unthinking types who I wanted nothing to do with that made me an atheist for as long as I was.
I said the Corinthians passage you referenced before "cuts both ways" because I think it's the self righteous Churchers who condemn others based on their own flat "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" interpretations who are actually caught up in just how wise they are.
The rest of the passages you reference here all hinge on what it means to believe in Jesus. I don't think your version of belief is in any way more valid than mine.
God knows our minds Jeff. So it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you. None of us can really judge anyone else but we can warn them about not repenting of their sins or having a false belief.
I believe this conversation started because you said you did not believe Jesus died to save us? Or was a misinterpreting this? I am honestly still not clear what you are saying.
I would be curious what you think my version is and what your version is exactly?
Thanks Jeff, if you rather private message me this is fine too or just talk here. I am fine with either one.
The way I see things, Jesus died because people are prone to status chasing above all else & to blindly aligning themselves with authority figures, both of which are stupid & easily the most destructive behaviors of all time. The lesson to be learned from the death of Jesus should be enough to save people from those behaviors, but unfortunately I think a lot of people, even those who seem to care, still miss it.
I will spend some time on the passages you DMed me sometime soon & we can continue there. Need sleep now 😴
I am a relatively new believer myself. I don't have all the answers but I believe we can learn from each other.
God bless and sleep well.
I have been an anarcho capitalist & bitcoin hodler for ~13+ years. I don't vote. I think people who pray to the American flag are worshipping a false idol. I have been eating only meat (no fruit or veggies) for 7+ years. I'm completely opposed to all vaccines now, in addition to the covid gene therapy jabs. I was often the only person in the store not wearing a mask during the plandemic. And I drive a ~$2000 car. All of that is just to make it abundantly clear that what other people think of me is rarely any concern, that's their business, not mine.
But church people are quite often hypocritical & emotionally abusive while engaging in lots of gas lighting. There is almost nothing that can make that sort of behavior worth tolerating. It's literally satanistic abuse, poorly hidden by fake smiles & fake happy tones, that drives people away from the church.
If you are a Christian you will forgive those people and pray for them. Don't forget that we are no better than anyone else. We are all sinners.
Agreed Jeff. I find that the most literal or restrictive interpretations tend to actually sell God and the beauty of Jesus’s deeds short.
All ironically in the name of virtue signaling about “I believe these literal words harder than you do”.
1 Corinthians 3:18-20
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
#Jesus #WordofGod #Christian #Bible #Scripture #Wisdom #worship #biblestr #bibleverse #Christ #God
True statements often tend to be a double edged sword...
I had to look up what double edged sword meant "it has negative effects as well as positive effects."
Not sure what you mean honestly? To me what that is saying is knowledge of the world is futile because the world is passing away. So in other words, gain knowledge about Jesus which will last forever.
you brought up brains so a couple of verses came to mind. This is from our Creator who gave us out minds.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
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Those passages are in no way incompatible with what I believe.
What do you think of this one?
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
Do you believe the whole Bible is the word of God? Do you believe the whole bible or just parts? Do you believe there is only one way to heaven?
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Haven't spent enough time on those. Will try to get to them at some point and get back to you. If you would paste them into a DM to me so that I will remember, I would appreciate it.
I believe reality is the body of God. And the more we expand our understanding of reality the closer that gets us to God. I think the Bible is an extremely valuable & important piece of literature that was "written by God" in the sense that men were motivated to write these things & we are God's fingers.
I don't know for sure but it sounds like you are doing what I did for many many years. I had a lot of trouble accepting a lot of the Bible so I relied on my own mind/understanding to create my own image of God as I thought He should be. Honestly I still struggle with some. I am learning to just trust God's plan and His Word.
As Christians we need to read God's word regularly. It is very easy to be mislead if you don't know God's word well. I am not expert by the way on it by any stretch.