I believe in one God,

the Father almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,

the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial

with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation

he came down from heaven,

At the words that follow, up to and including and became

man, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,

and became man.

For our sake he was crucified

under Pontius Pilate,

he suffered death and was buried,

and rose again on the third day

in accordance with the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory

to judge the living and the dead

and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father and the Son,

who with the Father and the Son

is adored and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic

and apostolic Church.

I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness

of sins

and I look forward to the resurrection

of the dead

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

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Say it every day

The resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, is where I try and spend a lot of thought and time on.

Deus

Quite a few religious people on nostr Im noticing... lots of jesus posts haha

I wonder what draws us here.

Cheers friend šŸ„‚

Beats me! May the lord keep you in his eternal light šŸ»

This is the way

What does the Bible say about what happens to the souls of those who have lived before, and those souls of today, who have not, nor will not, accept that Jesus Christ was the Son of God? (Which represents 90%+ of both the current and deceased population since Jesus was born)

Phenomenal question, I was raised catholic, I ponder philosophical and spiritual matters often, and I think this question is one that everyone should ask themselves if they believe they know truth and people of other beliefs do not.

I have come to believe that you can only know relative truth (since our material reality is relative) and that there is a possibility that what comes next is also relative. All I can hope for is that I join all other souls in a place of love because that is the one relative feeling I know intimately to be joyful and selfless.

Well said.

Jesus said, John 20:29 (RSVCE): 29Ā Jesus said to him, ā€œHave you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.ā€

He acknowledged that those who followed would be making an act of faith, and that the knowledge would not be absolute.

As to what the Church officially teaches on the future of non-believers, it is a complicated subject not lent to easy understanding in short form posts, and not what is commonly understood. The tl;dr as best as I can dare to attempt to summarize complex theology, is hell is reserved for those who, in full knowledge and assent of mind, choose to live in mortal sin.

This has been interpreted various ways. Many hold that by not being convinced of the teachings truthfulness, you are not in full knowledge, and not mortally sinning in rejection.

It is worth pointing out that the church never officially condemns anyone to hell, as that is between them and God, and the catechism specifically mentions several other faiths as clearly having a different path to God, however mysterious that may appear to us.

Christians who claim to know the mind of God with any certainty, claim a bit too much in my humble opinion.

Great summary

Yes, great summary-thank you. But isn’t the Bible supposed to be ā€œThe Word of Godā€, and the book in which God chose to send his message, so that Christians can know, with some certainty, the mind of God?

I would say it is the word of God, but not that it reveals the mind of God. Anything we would know about the mind of God from the Scriptures would be a second order approximation.

There are also several genera in the Scriptures. In the Catholic canon of scripture, there is History, Law, Novels, Proverbs, Psalms (prayers) etc. Those genera must be taken into account when interpreting the purpose and message.

Is the Old Testament also the Word of God, or just the New Testament?

The Old Testament is quite ā€œunforgivingā€ to say it mildly, about how to treat non-believers. Many disturbing examples.

ā€œbut that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to deathā€ (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

Deuteronomy 17 discusses stoning to death those people who ā€œhath gone and served other Godsā€.

2 Chronicles deals with an oath given by King Asa and all the people of Jerusalem. It says right after that, that they repented, and: ā€œ2 Chronicles 15:15 (RSVCE): 15Ā And all Judah rejoiced over the oath; for they had sworn with all their heart, and had sought him with their whole desire, and he was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest round about.ā€

The Lord gave them rest.

Deuteronomy 17 is a much better example of what you are driving at. In this case mosaic law directly orders the stoning of those who engage in worship of other gods.

There are a few points that can be made in no particular order:

1. This law was binding upon the people of Israel, who had directly witnessed and seen their God.

2. The people of Israel were under an earlier covenant that the one extended to gentiles by Christ.

3. This was during the time of the prophets, before the final revelation of Christ, when God still spoke directly to man.

As for those who died before Christ, the Catechism of the Catholic Church explains that they remained in Limbo until the death of Christ, at which point Christ opened the gates of heaven to the just who died before him:

ā€œToday a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him—he who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . .ā€I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.ā€ (CCC 635)

See also CCC637.

Unfortunately, the Filioque is a heresy. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father only.

Recommended reading: https://uncutmountainpress.com/shop/product/apodictic-treatise-on-the-procession-of-the-holy-spirit/

😮

I am well aware of the Eastern Orthodox view on the matter. This is a statement of my faith. I respect that others may not share it.

On a individual level, why do you believe?

Because I had a personal experience of God, and because I believe based on the arguments of evidence and logic.

I was once a very ardent atheist. I am very much unrecognizable from the man I was 12 years ago. I also walked a very self destructive path in my life. I’m not saying the two are related one to another, but that they were in my case.

It took someone patient enough to answer a lot of hard questions I had used for a long time to justify my disbelief, and humble enough to admit they did not know, and dedicated enough to find answers to bring me, before my heart started to soften.

The effect was very immediate on me. The way I thought and acted, and the way I treated those around me radically began to change. Hurts and issues I had carried my entire life began to wash away. It was a life changing thing to say the least. I reconciled relationships that had been broken for a decade.

I try really hard to not push what I’ve experienced or believe on other people out of respect, but also because I know that would certainly not have helped me. But I would be a coward to deny Christ publicly, so I opted for a simple public profession of my faith.

Much respected.

You have been good to me since we met friend. Well met.

ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø

You are a wise and respectable cat my friend šŸ«‚šŸ«‚. Beliefs to me only matter in so far as they manifest towards a fulfilled way of living. I'd like to think we're all approaching some form of truth, even if it can not be fully grasped.

I don't have any such certainty in my beliefs or experiences, but to me thats okay because I relish shades of gray and not knowing. I swim in the sea of uncertainty and skydive with vertiginous thoughts - sometimes to my own detriment and anxiety. Climbing up the gradient of relative truth all I can ask of myself even if I see that others have found their source. It used to be the case where I strived to find a grounding of beliefs, but all I can truly believe in is that I change - hoping that it's continuously towards the better.

The pursuit of truth is the right endeavor of all humankind. Keep up the journey. ā¤ļø

The person is the journey is the person. Hall of mirrors and recursive insights through it all

I always love to ask people why they believe. The epistemology of first person experiences with God is very interesting to me. Thank you for sharing some of the details. And yeah, it’s like meditation.. people who have never experienced some of these things for themselves have a hard time believing they would think differently if they had. Maybe radically differently. Such a self is so hard to imagine that people just assume it doesn’t exist.

I wish they could consider though the impact of finding good reasons to believe they have been seen by (and now maybe I’m assuming details of your experience you didn’t share but..) and are important to a divine and divinely-loving being.

I deeply appreciate good natured questions, whatever their purpose brother. You certainly have the credibility with me to deserve a good answer.

It is something very easy to discard if you haven’t had the experience, so I try to not be offended by it. I was once them. Nor do I find any superiority in it - I just consider myself extremely lucky. I wish a similar experience for everybody because of the good and the value it has had for me.

I think the disregard can go both ways. Those who have had that experience, or even worse those who by pride assume themselves the possessor of some obvious truth that only a blockhead would miss, are equally hurtful as the individual who has not and believes it must all be hallucination, or made up.

That’s one of the things that draws me here. We start by saying ā€œstay humble.ā€ It’s hard to truly do, but I think it’s one of the best pursuits.

i'm assuming you have had a modern education and you're at least reasonably intelligent. how then can you believe in these silly 'supernatural' fairy tales? hasn't mankind outgrown these primitive belief systems?

There are many reasons. Science has its limits. There are things it cannot explain, and I believe that to be the role of religion. Further, I was convinced as a skeptic based upon historical records and the elegance and logic of the teachings as far as my specific faith is concerned.

The Church has a huge corpus of teachings written over the course of 2000 years. Great minds like Thomas Aquinas. The Church is also a patron and contributor to science - the father of the Big Bang Theory was a Catholic priest (Fr. Georges LemaƮtre) and even now, the church operates one of the best observatories in the world. Hardly a primitive Church imo.

How can man outgrow God? I’m not so certain we are all that powerful. I’ve seen little evidence of mankind’s ability to live well without him.

Science doesn't state anything without verification; no need to revert to 'supernatural' explanations for things that it cannot (yet) explain, like primitive man has done for so many years. I do like the humanitarian aspects of e.g. the Church but again, no need for supernaturalism.

Science cannot answer questions like ā€œwhy am I here?ā€ or ā€œwhat is the meaning of life?ā€ or ā€œwhat should I do while I am here?ā€

These are firmly the domain of the philosophies and faith. There is nothing empirically observable about it. Science tells us what is, not why it is.

there simply is no 'why' or 'meaning' (why would there nees to be); don't worry about it

"The Science" is a religion.

no, the opposite

Do you not understand linguistics either?

you're grasping at straws

The scientific method is mankind's only defense against the mental barbarism that is religion.