Nostr Web Client

I have been able to convince exactly 0 people to use #Signal after they dropped SMS support.

Most of the people I convinced to use it only used it mostly with me. BUT, the selling point was that they could just set it as the default (better) SMS app and not just have another fucking messaging app just for me.

About 90% of MY communication used to be encrypted on Signal, even if theirs wasn't (it didn't matter to them).

Now? All of them are back to sending me SMS. This erased about two years of work I put into converting people.

So great, Signal is now more secure. Except no one in my life uses it with me anymore. Where exactly is the benefit we were supposed to see?

This is an old topic at this point, but just wanted to call out the fact that what many of us predicted is now a reality.

The interesting thing is that overlapping people in my network (friends, family, etc) were starting to use encryption incidentally without even knowing it.

A network effect that took a lot of work was completely destroyed by one decision.

Signal is dead in my life now and it's truly sad. I'm putting an end to my fruitless attempts to convert people. Sad.

#Security #Cybersecurity

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Discussion

Matt 1y ago

For the record, the most common response I get now is "Why don't you just get Facebook Messenger and talk to us there?"

This response makes total sense now that I'm asking all of them to have an app just for me.

And no, most people don't care about privacy and security in real life. It's just a sad reality that I used to have a loophole around.

Laeserin 1y ago

Everyone I know is on WhatsApp, except my immediate family on Threema and some Nostr frens on SimpleX.

My parents occasionally send me an SMS or an email.

I've grown used to being a societal outcast, like with the Bitcoin and Nostr stuff. 🤷‍♀️

Gigi 1y ago

Pigeon fixes this.

Justin 1y ago

No need for Sudoku puzzles when I send my grocery list to my wife as a Caesar Cipher via carrier pigeon.

BigFish 1y ago

Same here. Everyone is concerned about privacy but don't want to change anything. 🤷

Laeserin 1y ago

If people's actions tell you what they are actually concerned about, believe them.

Matt 1y ago

I'm considering deleting my SMS app and letting my actions speak lol I'd talk to almost no one in message format and maybe that's okay.

The main thing holding me back is the garbage companies still forcing SMS as a 2FA on a few of my accounts. I suppose I could just silence the app until I need it.

This seems nuclear though considering how often people text me.

Jack D 1y ago

I've considered setting up a canned responder. "This number does not accept messages on unencrypted channels. Please consider using Signal."

Matt 1y ago

I think the issue is that they AREN'T concerned about privacy. Convenience is their focus, which is the only reason they agreed to install Signal for me (it was a better SMS app and cost them nothing). That isn't true now so none of them use it anymore.

Bac0t 1y ago

lol i can see whatsapp will copy signal by stop using phone numbers in near future nostr:npub1zgpanpumxemdjllsp74jew5vxr6slgwpajpuv3fpw4eefd25y0zs8gjw87 just love to copy peoples ideas

NaturalNerd 1y ago

I get this too. I just respond 'did you read the terms of service or just click past that part?' I miss out on things because I'm not on there, but that is fine. My focus has shifted to trying to get people on nostr. Only one of my friends has created an npub and has yet to do much with it

PastaGringo 🤖⚡ 1y ago

I stopped to use Signal after the of the SMS support. Too Bad.

Matt 1y ago

Yeah, I think a lot of people did. I wish they were more transparent about metrics so we could see if use dropped after.

Gigi 1y ago

Sad.

nostr:nevent1qqs9uxpveh20556r4gsmhpm07t37wwkvcyravphckadksqg45xpv8pspz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcpzpl4psmp2geudh3phwp8w6gtqs3hg57q7t7chq4hfhvenssx4hhhjqvzqqqqqqynam2dg

Séimí Mac Síomón 1y ago

I've gotten a lot of people to use Signal, I will never stop even if I am the last person.

jamw 1y ago

Same here. Family and friends. They still use WhatsApp alongside it though. None of them use SMS.

Matt 1y ago

Wish I could say the same.

Matt 1y ago

So did I, before they dropped SMS support. Now none of them do anymore.

Banging 1y ago

Fact same here , I’ve heard of a new app called wire that’s similar to what signal used to be though but not quite

₿ountiful 1y ago

Why I switched to IMessage from my work phone at least with the most important people. If you can’t lead a horse to water, go to the walled off lake they are already drinking from.

GLACA 1y ago

What do you mean by dropping sms support? Isn't it about connecting on Signal? I started converting people to SimpleX. Today my GF got signal and she loves it.

Matt 1y ago

Sorry, I don't know how to make what I mean any clearer.

curt finch 1y ago

I use signal with those who will use it with me

mainly just my sisters

Matt 1y ago

I used to do that too. The number is zero now because no one is willing to anymore. They all went back to SMS with me after it no longer worked as their default SMS app.

curt finch 1y ago

I actually didn't even know you could do that

Matt 1y ago

Yeah, it mainly only mattered for Android which is used by 95% of the people I talk to. Setting it as the default SMS app essentially resulted in a net gain for them without doing anything else. As a result, almost everyone I messaged was using Signal with me.

curt finch 1y ago

I was in a meeting the other day with 15 CEOs and somebody said pull out your phone and I was the only one with an Android

zfold 4

in a few years Apple will come out with a folding phone and everybody will say they invented it

Matt 1y ago

Lol Or it'll have a stupid touch bar or something that no one asked for.

Prisoner24601 1y ago

Good god. Ew CEOs have been pathetic for decades

curt finch 1y ago

just people

Daniele 1y ago

Classic social issue 😕

I am going so far to basically ignore people who write me to whatsapp, and answer promptly just on telegram or signal or anything else.

But this kind of "wars" are not going anywhere and are kind of pointless in the end.

The only way probably is a standard like email and then everyone keep using the app they prefer, provided the ability to filter out whoever do not use e2e encryption or whatever feature you want to enforce on your peers.

Maybe nostr is that thing.

Matt 1y ago

I won't even install things like WhatsApp, so there's nothing for me to ignore unless I just delete my SMS app. That's how people reach me since I don't even have accounts for the apps they use (mostly SnapChat, Instagram, and Facebook Messenger in my age group.)

fiatjaf 1y ago

SMS is actually good.

Matt 1y ago

That's a broad statement. It's not good if you don't want the phone company (and anyone else who can have access as a result) having a complete record of every conversation you have through messaging.

It's not good if you want some features offered by modern messaging clients.

It is good that it has been adopted as a standard.

If you just want to tell someone hey in a standard way and don't give a damn who sees it then sure, it's good.

fiatjaf 1y ago

Ok, you are right. They are awful.

Matt 1y ago

Are you being sarcastic or is there something I don't understand about SMS?

fiatjaf 1y ago

No, I really think they are bad. I was just highlighting the fact that they are good in at least one aspect, but you gave me a serious answer and I can't but agree with you. It was all a misunderstanding.

Prisoner24601 1y ago

The value of privacy in the culture has been thoroughly gutted in the WEST over the last 25 years, after they've been fed enough Facebook and poison and dribble nonsense. You aren't alone, but we are just a remnant now.

#nostr

#nostriches

nostr:nevent1qqs9uxpveh20556r4gsmhpm07t37wwkvcyravphckadksqg45xpv8psppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpl4psmp2geudh3phwp8w6gtqs3hg57q7t7chq4hfhvenssx4hhhjqvzqqqqqqy7gv2kr

BlindOwl 1y ago

Sad, so let me show you some hope. I got my daughter (in primary school) on Signal. Now all the girls in her class and some others at the school are using Signal for all their communications. Most of them are not on SnapChat or TikTok. Group chats on Signal has become their social media.

Matt 1y ago

Thank you. 💪 But this only gives me hope for the future. I don't think my generation gets it and they probably never will.

mrecheese 🧀 1y ago

I ran into exactly the same thing, with the same result. Somehow I've convinced a few to get on my Snikket chat, though. Maybe it seems more fun or they haven't heard it being associated with "conspiracy theorists." Either way, it gets them off telegram or sms.

Don't rule out the nuclear option, but also be prepared to find out how little effort you're worth to the people who are supposed to like you. Kinda dark vibes first thing in the morning. 😂

NaturalNerd 1y ago

Same. I loved signal when it had SMS support. I'm glad many of my friends are still on it. The group message we have for our board game crew is better than SMS. I will keep using it, it was hard enough convincing people when it still supported sms. I think the chances of convincing normies to use something like xmpp is almost zero.

Islamic Audiobooks Central 1y ago

My experience was the opposite. Was never able to persuade anyone to make it their default SMS app but ended up making them use #Signal itself, at least with me:

1. Pixel with #degoogled OS without Google Play.

2. Sorry my phone doesn't have #WhatsApp or even the Play store :(

3. It comes with Signal instead - send link https://signal.org/install :)

Also, providing value while deciding the terms can help. e.g. I teach free classes redeemable only on #Jitsi, #Matrix or Signal so that's another way I got people using them.

I've found that persuading them from the #privacy and #foss angles may require you to know the person and spend more time with them so you can drop subtle hints about these concepts occassionally and can peak their interest gradually.

Andrew 1y ago

This is why I see apps like Signal as stopgaps until iPhones implement RCS. It can be E2E encrypted and is basically an upgrade to SMS on everyones phones, so no one has to install another app, it's just their regular texts but upgraded with typing indicators, read receipts, group chats that actually work, etc.

azz 1y ago

RCS security does not scratch signal though

Matt 1y ago

It doesn't appear to in my opinion either. I don't think it's a replacement, but I also don't think Signal is THE solution. I dont like how centralized Signal is right now.

azz 1y ago

Yeah agreed. Maybe signal’s cryptography and protocol, over nostr-like relays then? Would need separate solutions for usernames etc but perhaps a workable start

Andrew 1y ago

That’s basically how Simplex Chat works: https://simplex.chat

Matt 1y ago

I don't think RCS is the end solution, just as Signal isn't. Both are hopefully just gap fillers for a more decentralized way of communicating securely and privately. But I agree that RCS appears to be better than the current model.

The problem for me is that I haven't found a decent FOSS app that supports it on Android, meaning I don't use it now even though I could be. Back to the same problem unless it becomes decentralized enough that I'll use it. I'm not using Google's closed messaging app just to have RCS. I'd rather just not text or hardly do it.

I'm right back in the same boat. That's why I think the best solution is to have a standard, decentralized protocol that is compatible for all of us and easily available for FOSS use.

Maybe RCS will become that in time. It's relatively new compared to standard SMS.

Matt 1y ago

Frankly, Signal is more mature and we would be better off if the industry just adopted it's model. I'd want to see the ability for servers outside of Signal's control that can still communicate with those on their servers though.

Signal also has a better governing structure in my opinion as far as open protocols go. Having Google at the wheel doesn't scream security and privacy to me given their entire business model.