That's another thing id love to see change if possible (i dont know what are the barriers). Mp3s are compressed... not good for music.
Discussion
Yeah wav is good quality. That’s what I would upload to Wavlake. If there’s a
good solution where I can easily post albums with album arts and the genre I would like to try
Give podhome.fm a shot. I think they have a free month trial.
WAV is also huge. At least use a lossless codec like FLAC. That will cut the size in half.
WAV will rape people's data plans, and most users won't notice the difference in quality. A high bitrate mp3 or AAC will be enough for 95% of users, and use 20% of the bandwidth.
Most music services serve multiple bitrate streams, so users can select the tradeoff they want, bandwidth vs quality.
I don’t know how Wavlake does it. I dont see an option in the settings. MP3 the quality suffers
They will compress it somehow. WAV is about 800 mb per hour. AAC is the standard now, rather than mp3 for most services that stream. It should be well supported on all devices.
Looks like wavlake uses mp3.
Ok so it’s fine if I upload wav to Wavlake since they compress. If I compress do they compress again?
Not sure.
But yeah, WAV is an archival format, that's what you want to save your tracks in. But for streaming it's not suitable, way too big. Longer loading times and 5-10x bandwidth usage.
Right. So something like Wavlake converts but if I want to do the profile thing I do aac or mp3. How do I add the track metadata?
The Metadata goes into the rss feed. How to do it depends on how you're building the feed... by hand or by a specific 3rd party service
This is getting complicated 🤣
and Nostr isnt 🤣
Less 😂
Let’s say I do all that. How do I send a link of a track to someone who’s not on nostr so they can listen to it?
It's just a web link. Most browsers can play them, but the interface is balls 😂
Ah so they won’t be able to play it unless they have an app? Or just in the browser?
You would link them the RSS feed, not the individual files. Then any podcast app can handle it. Or any of the DeMu apps that will be built in the future.
They would subscribe to your music feed.
Lnbeats or fountain depending on audience.
I send normies to fountain and for the bitcoiners who's balls have dropped, to lnbeats.
Its app specific. Pick a nice app you think theyll like, and as far as I know, all of them let you hit the share button for a link to either song or album.
Like this:
LNBeats is the njump of #V4V music
Wait
So I do all this and then I can only share with the 24 users here? 🤣
i can share it with my 5 followers on Mastodon and 10 people on IRC
Excuse me, nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpg3mhxue69uhnwumjwgmkx6revvm8vmrg0fcxxvngdsmxc7t4denhvmr4da585undwsmnv6mzwv6xkmtev358y7r0v94kkcn3w4skgtnvda3kzmqpzemhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6qghwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx27prlx2 alone is 34 ppl
Think how many people listen to podcasts. This is RSS based, it reaches far outside of Nostr. It's 25 year old tech.
MP3 has something called id3 for metadata. m4a (aac) file have similar tags embedded. Most apps that you compress with will give you the option to add these tags.
Lol its only complicated in theory. Heres some screenshots from podhome.fm. you just fill in fields.
These apps should pull into straight from the audio track tags for DeMu. You could even add tags for lightning info in the file itself. Then tracks downloaded and shared could still have the info to pay the creator.
You could have Napster, but with lightning so the artist can still get paid 🤯
Now you're seeing it
and your not stealing anything because its V4V and you cant steal that
I've been waiting for this shit to start happening 😂
Video needs an upgrade too, with HLS support for more bitrates and formats.
Media is a tougher nut to crack than simple text notes. The storage and bandwidth requirements ramp up, plus needing to have more format options to support a broad range of devices and link speeds.
podcasting 2.0 hosts are working on HLS also. I dont care about video so I havent followed it much but its hot right now.
we even have something called Alternate Enclosure that lets you switch between audio and video like YouTube music does with audio and video.
https://podcasting2.org/docs/podcast-namespace/tags/alternate-enclosure
Cool I'll check it out.
We have spoken with many industry giants and have several on-side supporting DeMu right now. One of them is a former head of digital transformation for yahoo music.
The ones who get it see that this can be a bigger disruption than Napster and this time the dice falls in favor of the artists.
That's awesome, LFG 🚀🚀🚀
This step you do after uploading track to new npub? Or after creating rss feed?
Podhome does most of that for you. It would be more like the wavlake experience. They do the background work, you just upload a track.
So you 1. Create acct with podhome. 2. Set up an artist feed and upload the mp3 3. Fill in the fields and hit submit.
At this point your feed is now in the podcast index.
Podhome currently does not have nostr integration that I'm aware of. But you cam always grab the link off fountain or lnbeats and post that to nostr. A little manual but that's just for now. I think we've finally engaged the brilliant minds on nostr and if pc2.p starts seeing more nostriches using it and asking for nostr integrations, surely the market will respond.
I know many of the people out here in both camps will be pushing hard for nostr based upgrades. I think nostr has a lot to offer pc2.0 and take it next level
When I say your feed is in the podcast index, pragmatically what that means is you're track and all metadata has been published and pushed to any and all apps that are pc2.0 compliant and available for podcasters and listeners to download/stream/use in their own podcasts or music show. Immediately and automatically as it should be in this day and age. No middle man, no publishing company. Just self hosted and shared v4v.
Ok so this has nothing to do with the nostr option ChadF was talking about. And then if I want to share with people it’s easy?
Oh... sorry im getting lost in the hell thread I think. Paging nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpg3mhxue69uhnwumjwgmkx6revvm8vmrg0fcxxvngdsmxc7t4denhvmr4da585undwsmnv6mzwv6xkmtev358y7r0v94kkcn3w4skgtnvda3kzmqpzemhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6qghwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx27prlx2 👆🏽
i'm lost too. People just share the link to the app they want people to use. Fountain and LNBeats are kind of the go to for music and I think that's what we're talking about but thb the Wavlake app is great.
we do have pod.link also that links to all podcasting apps. Why thats a number for the name idk. These links will have varying result based on how the app handles music but you WL music is on a RSS feed that these apps can use.
I’m already using Wavlake. So if I share on Wavlake it goes to all the Demu apps, if I understand correctly?
*using Wavlake to upload and share my music
Correct.
Uploading to wavlake will publish your music everywhere.
Uploading anywhere else will publish your music everywhere BUT wavlake.
Not to dredge this back up but its important to have historical context:
The whole "semi-walled garden" thing js the issue podcasters have with wavlake and are very confused why nostr bros still embrace it as fervently as they do when theres other more freedom and open protocol aligned alternatives that exist. Yes, they are less convenient, but from their perspective im hearing a lot of "wait, aren't you guys bitcoiners? Didn't think youd trade freedom for convenience. "
Ok so is there an option as straightforward as Wavlake or that’s something on the roadmap or no idea yet?
Its absolutely on the road map. nostr:nprofile1qqspdj6t8rlf5aytvcy0dfvkjyue9h79pyr9ynyrz8xnvz7yqg32h9qpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj76xfn5g and nostr:nprofile1qqs9qzn25rmt82te2lwh5cucje0nw35snmaw47cxplyurmg8eg5cu9spz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgjwaehxw309ahx7um5wgerztnrdakj7qgswaehxw309ahx7um5wghx6mmd9u9ydu77 team are working on something like that
I know nostr:nprofile1qqsr7acdvhf6we9fch94qwhpy0nza36e3tgrtkpku25ppuu80f69kfqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy0hwumn8ghj7mn0wd68yttjv4kxz7fwv3jhyettwfhhxuewd4jj7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hsleq7kw and nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpg3mhxue69uhnwumjwgmkx6revvm8vmrg0fcxxvngdsmxc7t4denhvmr4da585undwsmnv6mzwv6xkmtev358y7r0v94kkcn3w4skgtnvda3kzmqpzemhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6qghwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx27prlx2 and nostr:nprofile1qqs2p9fwkqd9vm4rqac0zvh87pqgt2k3l9csgks2jhc7wrxj89vwcmgpzpmhxue69uhkztnwdaejumr0dshszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qgawaehxw309ahx7um5wghxy6t5vdhkjmn9wgh8xmmrd9skctc8jlpr3 all have demu specific apps coming out. Not sure about hosting, I think they're more focused on streaming side and user experience. They can talk more specifically abt their projects tho.
So on those solutions, hosting would maybe need to be done elsewhere. Like nostr.build for example. It would be cool to have an all in one. Hosting included. Would make it easy for artists
its all open and anyone can build that
So it’s not on the roadmap. Ok I understand
Its not on his road map I guess, and thays fine. Do one thing and do it well. Excuse me sir, this isn't a microsoft. There are other road maps and projects.
Yeah I'm just a dude vibecoding stuff for nostr:npub14c7ksq2wln0s9nftjlr0wv2vqpg5xzvw7jezl3whczc0ff2y97eqerl5l2
Fountain has hosting and an app
PodHome has hosting and an app
Truefans has hosting and an app
Wavlake has hosting and an app
And the one you guys don’t like is Wavlake right. The other ones that host are good?
Wavlake is fine, IMO. They fill a need.
It's not that we don't like Wavlake, it's that Wavlake's code makes it so the Wavlake player can only play Wavlake music. If Wavlake's player played all RSS based music, I'd probably recommend most people use Wavlake. They give you a wallet and hosting and charge you 10% of your sats. Unless you're making $100 a month on your music, you'd pay less with a 10% cut than you would with a different hosting company charging a monthly fee.
Because they don't play all RSS based music, they go against my values, but if that ever changes, I'll send more people to Wavlake.
That’s what I meant. The walled garden thing. Wanted to answer quickly
Its like the custodial vs noncustodial lightning wallet debate. Do you run a full umbrel node? Or do you run zeus? Or are you using WoS.
To make the analogy, musicsideproject solution is like setting up an umbrel node, fountain or podhome are like running zeus and wavlake is sorta like WoS
I use all 3 of those node/wallet solutions. Just like I use wavlake sometimes. Like Derek says, it fills a need.
If you're looking for a turn key solution, a company like Wavlake that handles everything is exactly what you want.
Does Wavlake support your values?
Do you mind giving them a 10% cut in exchange for the service they provide?
If Wavlake works for you, use Wavlake, they're a great solution. But if you want more ownership, there's tools to do it yourself.
It's like changing your oil. If you know how to do it, you can choose to do it yourself or pay someone else because it's not worth the hassle. No shade with either decision.
I’m already using Wavlake. I was wondering if there was a similar option already available
Podhome, Fountain if you want hosting.
Music Side Project if you want to host it yourself.
Oh so podhome and fountain do the hosting too. Every person I spoke to gave me different answers about this. Im a bit confused. I’ll look into this. Thanks
ultimately, it's just a file sitting on a web server somewhere and you need someone to host that file for you. is it you? is it a company? what do they charge? what services do they offer along with hosting? think of it as a very specific type of website and you're buying webhosting for that very specific website.
I think the confusion is theres really two pieces of info being hosted. Your media files (audio and artwork) and your rss xml file (aka your rss feed/metadata)
So which ones do both? Only Wavlake?
Podhome is a hosting solution. Publishing is baked into the process by default.
Fountain (with their RSSBlue partnership) is an AiO solution and includes a player as well (just like wavlake)
There are others but I recommend looking at podhome first. There's lots of podcast hosting solutions and just a handful of ones catered specifically for music. Because RSS is open, there are certain standards but you can pick and choose what fields you actually utilize or even create your own as long as theres a compatible app that knows to reference it.
nostr:npub1unmftuzmkpdjxyj4en8r63cm34uuvjn9hnxqz3nz6fls7l5jzzfqtvd0j2 nostr:npub1pj3a304qsdh99yr5wkug75rfznr284fzy7zalfnuwkctwyye2djsae7des
These two can answer any questions, but yes, they have hosting. Fountain is also a player, and I believe PodHome is working on a player too.
Exactly. We (Podhome.fm) ca host your music and podcasts and will distribute it to all the apps (we also have a listening app ourselves). Fountain hosting can also host and distribute your content.
Our goal is to make it super easy for you to just upload and distribute.
Podhome and podverse are two different things. Podhome is hosting/publishing and podverse is streaming
agree here 100%. some apps will exist for the soverign individual and some apps will exist as full fledged solutions where they do the work for their customer. not every human or creator fits in the same box, so we need a wide variety of solutions for all.
hosting people's stuff is a non-starter for me b/c its a pain in the ass.
Self-host or use a hosting company. If its on the Index we all can us it and that how I built itdv.podtards.com
nostr:npub18ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqctp424 seems interested in that more than us.
Yeah podcasters have solved hosting for themselves. Its a non issue on their end. Nostriches are just now finding demu so they have to build their stack. That would include getting hosting right.
I dont want to see all products with all the same features sets. It'll be nice to have an all in one solution but i certainly dont want every product to be that.
If you need a product, then build it. That or go on a rampage on nostr for an entire day getting nothing else done pther than creating a hell thread and bullying nostr:nprofile1qqsr7acdvhf6we9fch94qwhpy0nza36e3tgrtkpku25ppuu80f69kfqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy0hwumn8ghj7mn0wd68yttjv4kxz7fwv3jhyettwfhhxuewd4jj7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hsleq7kw into doing it 😉
Ok that said I think its important to also highlight i dont hate wavlake and I think without it, we wouldn't be standing here today. Thay said, I think we need more freedom of choice and I do think the wavlake product is flawed. I understand why it was built the way it was built when it was built, and I also understand why it cannot be upgraded on a technical/economic level. There's no animosity here. I'm just looking forward to the future and not sticking to safe know solutions ultimately holding us back.
Yes sharing is very easy. Any app you can stream demu from will have a share button that let's you copy a link. Most if not all will open in a browser.
Those are the apps you were telling me about? The PWAs ?
Sorry tried to delete last note but idk if I caught it in time. Had an inaccuracy.
Yes, as far as I know, for all the apps (fountain lnbeats podverse etc) when you share a link, it opens in browser if you dont have the app. Lnbeats will allow you to install as a pwa. Fountain has its own app and I think podverse does too.
Don’t use a host, do it yourself for less than 1000 sats.
https://cdn.satellite.earth/509dfaf56166ca159a05b801383f6014f57f88f1bb600b8df45f02d89cd0903a.mp4
👆🏽 this
just zapped nostr:npub1rzg96zjavgatsx5ch2vvtq4atatly5rvdwqgjp0utxw45zeznvyqfdkxve 1000 sats so he can afford it now
Nostr.Build would work with a free account.
0 sats.
They also have a 5 GB plan now, with Nostr integration, media analytics, etc for like $16 a year.
It might be worth pinging nostr:nprofile1qqsglv2qkn5dmmuhee9cy8fywfu2rfp4xd3xy0myqg2gfvmjl9yqqrqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskuep0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0crg0k2 about this. Would podcasting/DeMu support be possible to add to nostr.build ? Having the largest Nostr media host involved could be a plus.
Now we're cooking
Demand exists? I’ve pitched it to the nostr community some year ago and got mostly lukewarm replies
YES.
Lol this threads a bit of a novel at this point 🤣
nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpzamhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcprpmhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tchypkm2 and nostr:nprofile1qqsgufllkhymhrxaqyc6meh05jw4d4qpk4pym87lnf37qax4y7c8zhqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhspn8459 are maybe the best two to speak with, they know what's going on with podcasting2.0 and Nostr integration.
How to Start a Hell Thread Without Starting a Hell Thread
Written By nostr:nprofile1qqsgufllkhymhrxaqyc6meh05jw4d4qpk4pym87lnf37qax4y7c8zhqq95zex and nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpg3mhxue69uhnwumjwgmkx6revvm8vmrg0fcxxvngdsmxc7t4denhvmr4da585undwsmnv6mzwv6xkmtev358y7r0v94kkcn3w4skgtnvda3kzmqpzemhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6qghwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx27prlx2
Ok, I’ll take it as no 🤣
Nostr.build with an rss integration would move the needle getting more nostriches to fully utilize the power of pc2.0
Hell even just an audio optimized hosting solution would be super cool!
Haha, I think your comment got lost in the hell thread.
This is what I think is needed, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.
🔹Audio uploading & optimization for streaming.
Musicians can upload their source files and have it converted to mp3 or m4a, possibly preserving the source files as well.
🔹An RSS feed supporting podcasting 2.0
This lets the user add their songs easily to podcasting/demu apps. It would need a way to edit the metadata for the feed and the uploaded files.
Am I missing anything here nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpzamhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcprpmhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tchypkm2 nostr:nprofile1qqsgufllkhymhrxaqyc6meh05jw4d4qpk4pym87lnf37qax4y7c8zhqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhspn8459 ?
An auto conversion to mp3 would be amazing. Im weary of optimization sometimes... would it affect audio quality? That's first and foremost. I like the option to have it on or off like you have for the photo optimization.
The second one, nostr.build could certainly host rss files. Agree, the ability to edit is big but we would also need some way to push a notification that theres been a new feed created or an update. Its been done so the code is likely out there. The PC2.0 guys use a function called podping. I think they use it over IRC or something idk how it works but there are those around who might. Looking at nostr:nprofile1qqszxgvrzkpasudhvdjx3anl77qxse5wd6eunndmyv9x63uwnpn09mgpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3e82efwvdhk6tcgt4a3x maybe?
unless they compress it down to 64Kbps probably not.
also no podping uses a shitty blockchain.
But bro it's got blockchain 😂
it's a shitty blockchain so I will make my own newer blockchain that will be 10x faster and infinitely less shit 😂
they could just switch to Nostr but where's the fun in that when you can use blockchain???
Lol I didn't realize it was a shitcoin tool. Its always just worked.
I thought it just pinged the podcast index to trigger it to refresh or something. Why do shitcons ruin everything?
It writes data to the Hive blockchain a la OP_RETURN saying "this podcast was updated". "amazing" solution 😂
Podping does use the hive blockchain to store podcasting 2.0 updates. It serves its purpose and has for years and even Fountain uses it to put data. It's a fast chain so it transmits the info in seconds.
nostr:npub13cnlldwfhwxd6qf34hnwlfya2m2qrd2zfk0alxnrup6d2fasw9wqxwkzpe there are several ways to trigger it and you've seen it fine in the irc but sovereignfeeds also has it built in.
The way I see it, if this "token" is providing a utility thats being used in the real world, then it has value. At the end of thebday its just another way of transmitting data. Maybe underlying architecture is ugly but it works and it works well. At least a bit less shitty than some other shitcoins ive stepped in before. How is this fundamentally any diff than sending a packet of data any other way? I'd maybe place it as shitcoiny as a stable coin or something idk.
Whatever, it works and no one thats using it for utility is trading the token as far as I know.
nostr:nprofile1qqs00y32ptdnlfxa5hhv4f30dalwv9vl0a27pqpkdpkx3cyrstp50zqpg3mhxue69uhnwumjwgmkx6revvm8vmrg0fcxxvngdsmxc7t4denhvmr4da585undwsmnv6mzwv6xkmtev358y7r0v94kkcn3w4skgtnvda3kzmqpzemhxue69uhkx6rpv3nzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6qghwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx27prlx2 For those who are allergic, in the current existing ecosystem, is there a way to publish without using podping?
yeah, you upload and wait like we used to.
there is some websub thing that this replaced
its just a service to tell people you uploaded a new episode people
Nostr fixes this. Just push a note. Maybe someone can write a NIP that pushes a specific note that signals the index theres been an update and tells it whay to update (whatever data is previously transmitted stays the same. Same car different road). The index just watches for that specific NIP instead of podping
Can we short podcasts on a De-Fi app yet?
My proposed solution
Simple is good 😂
Step 1 - take something
Step 2 - cross out a part
Step 3 - write "nostr"
Step 4 - ???
Step 5 - PROFIT
Yes bring me to step 5 please. I heard it’s Uptober 💰
i couldnt help myself
😂😂
Just add nostr. Nostr fixes everything.
Toast too cold? Add nostr.
Need a bodyguard? Add nostr.
Wife too ugly? Add nostr.
Hit me with your best shot.
Too late to bitcoin? Add nostr
Too early to Bitcoin? Add nostr
Bitcoin doesn’t fix it? Add nostr
Oh I have no idea how podping works. I just know ppl type shit into ICQ sometimes and feeds show up.
I see two options for publishing to the RSS
websub - used by a lot of existing web properties already
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSub
And podping - it's attached to some web3 💩coin called hive 😬
https://github.com/Podcastindex-org/podping
Podcasting 2.0 docs
Podping replaces websub.
Websub you need to constantly poll the feed to see if it updated.
Podping you say "hey this updated" and everyone using that system knows.
But we have such a tiny demand, I cannot possibly justify wasting another minute on things that are barely used. I spent a ton on analytics (almost unused), setting moderation headers (unused by any of the clients), and many other things just to have them not used with days/weeks of wasted time and money. I really do not see demand, we have so few people and so little usage of any “advanced” features.
Yeah this I understand. Slow growth leaves little room for stuff like this.
It might not be the time now. This DeMu thing need time to grow still. Hopefully in the future it will expand to the point of being worthwhile.
Thanks for the attention anyways. I'll be keeping an eye on it and will harass you again sometime in the future 😂🫡
🤣🫡
There are a lot of features people look at and want but never use in reality.
A good chunk of nostr.land users don't even use the aggregator or claim their NIP-05 name even if they don't use it as the primary (the name will also be used for other things)
Same on the nostr.build side
I've never looked at the land nip-05. Thanks for the reminder.
What is it useful for other than the obvious nip05 uses?
ID on that same site, just one nym with no @
something related to subdomains 👀
I just tried to set it up.
I click sign with extension, I approved it, the button dims, but nothing happens 🤔
Odd. Should work now.
There, after I refreshed the page and entered my npub it showed as active 👍
Thanks semi.
I dont disagree with this in that hosting solutions is a relatively small optimization in the overall workflow when we have larger fish to fry. But its worth a shot to set one thing in motion if it doesn't take away from other efforts elsewhere.
Everything takes away from something, there is no free lunch
Any task no matter how simple has a fixed cost (tracking it, context switch, ...)
Im not talking in economic terms. I simply mean we can build shit faster if we all do it together at once knowing its eventually needed
I guess that is true, but work like service/client integrations take time from both sides. Implementing podcasts in Nostr.build currently would have to take away time from more important improvements, while benefiting less users than those improvements
Yeah im not arguing for you to drop more important priorities and honestly I dont think nostr.build should implement podcasts, just support whats required on hosting. The rest is just fluff. Do one thing and do it well.
You guys host basically all of nostra media. Keep focusing on that. Bare min to get demu really going on nostr just needs you to support essential features like the ability to host audio files and rss files (which it does already)
My point in all this here is to show you guys theres a lot already in motion and the massive potential/untapped market. Your product sits in one of the essential corners of this ecosystem. Just heads up and house call to see if theres anything you guys can do to move this forward with us. If yes, cool, if not, maybe later. All good, this is freedom tech.
fwiw, there is already support for uploading MP3, (and for paid) WAV and FLAC, and the API can be easily used for thid
for reencoding audio, this can be done in browser efficiently, and this way creator can pick the lowest bitrate with good quality for their specific usecase
Definitely not for nothing.
As nostr integrated demu apps start shipping, I hope they look at the features nostr.build already offer and integrate it too
Depends from what perspective. You working on hosting doesnt materially take away from Derek working on streaming.
Many similar such efforts have been set in motion today. Remember the early days of nostr apps cranking out seemingly daily? Back when we were all bullshit on pablo?
I feel a similar bubbling beginning today in the demu space on nostr.
Currently hosting really isn't an issue in PC 2.0 and if no one wants to use Nostr then they won't be interested in Nostr.build either. We're not going full Nostr and I don't know how much we will add. The lightning wallet solutions Nostr provides are what we're after currently because that's what we need but building solutions for people to host content and build RSS feeds so apps can surface that content were game for.
I'm also not that familiar with Nostr.build but if we need a hosting service you'll be top of mind.
I think most people just host their media on their websites currently.
Podcasters are used to hosting their own stuff either on their own or using a hosting provider so that's all just transferred over to the music stuff as well since music is just an extension of PC 2.0.
People around here just stopped using Spotifys Anchor hosting for their podcast within the last years btw.
I think its important to recognize theres two important goals that are sort of intertwined as one begets the other so even if we have positive movement in only one direction, a high tide floats all boats.
1. Podcasters need an upgrade to the current feature set which nostr tech may be able to provide (relays, identity etc) while maintaining backwards compatibility
2. Nostriches need to start getting into demu! But the current implementations are largely incompatible with what nostr is using and moving towards (keysend vs lnurl/nwc).
While podcasters may not need a change in hosting solution, having a nostr native product thats already seamlessly integrated into nostr would be massive for achieving #2. Just like Dell computers shipped with windows, amythest and most other clients ship with nostr.build baked in as the default.
If we drive nostr adoption of demu, that is a huge untapped market thats already mostly on board and dont know it. The podcasters will see theres movement there and that its worth looking into again, driving more adoption or re-adoption. And that starts the flywheel.
Not seeing demand =/= there is no demand.
You have to understand whats happening right now.
There are two very similar ecosystems, connected initially only through usage of lightning payments via keysend... are colliding.
The podcasting 2.0 world realized they could selfhost music via rss and found lightning as a payment rail via keysend boosts. Whereas Nostr created lightning zaps and primarily uses lnurl today.
These two worlds are very similar and have very similar ethos but are using entirely different communication layers. Podcastinf 2.0 comes from the massive podcasting world thatbhas been amassing users for 25 years. They have been searching for solutions that I know nostr cam provide.
But its chicken or the egg. Which comes first? Without the tools, they won't come to nostr or care. So you don't hear the demand. But they are very much out there.
All that said, hosting is not the biggest issue right now. We need to come to a gentleman's agreement with the PC2.0 crowd as to how we somewhatbstandardize zaps/boosts and move fwd together as one larger community
And why am I so passionate on this? Because there are tens of thousands of insanely talented musicians out there struggling to eat because they have no proper meals of monetization without fear of censorship or rugpulls. Nostr + rss + bitcoin fixes this but only if all 3 are aligned. Many families and livelihoods depend on this. Real music culture depends on this (unless you like ai slop)... because the industry is dying fast.
Its all a lot bigger than just some features really.
Just to throw some extra work in there… some way of BUYING an mp3 or wav with sats would be cool.
“You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy” I think Mr Nakamoto once said… The day will come when Spotify rugs peoples’ music collections and it will be moderately lol imo.
Since feeds are publicly hosted you can technically download them for free. That's just part of v4v.
The RSS spec also allows for a funding tag where you can essentially link a fiat payment rail like PayPal. But you cam also utilize it to link to a merch page or download my song for x sats webpage or whatever.
Ah of course, hadn’t considered that.
It’s worth taking a look at FairCamp. Whilst, unfortunately, the dev is very anti btc, as a simple landing page for musicians it’s pretty cool.
This thread could rival nostr:nprofile1qqsvlca5x9keq5e4km8q26aqas3skkr6xdpcr6ptlxsz5xz095rglrgpz4mhxue69uh5yetkduhxummnw3erztnrdakszyrhwden5te0dehhxarj9emkjmn9qyxhwumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmvurc4ss 's hell threads in length.
Speaking of, haven't seen her around in a long time. You alright girl???
Hiya, yeah I’m ok just busy with work and wildlife issues.
Thanks for checking in 🙏💜🫂
DeMu a few years ago was still finding its feet and nostr had no idea about it outside of wavlake. Wavlake does hosting for you so there was no demand for it. But things have changed significantly since then. Decentralization and a demand for more self sovereign options is rising. With that comes the need for media hosting.
I believe nostr has only begun to open their eyes today.
^ This. FLAC can get up to 60% smaller and I think has pretty good support for metadata.
But for listening the difference between 256Kbps-384Kbps Opus or AAC, and 16 or 24 bit FLAC/WAV is indistinguishable.
It's good for archival though as you avoid generational loss if you want to transcode your library to another format to use in your media server.
Yeah what the cat with the high IQ said ☝️