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As an aside, I have a really hard time understanding why people enjoy spelunking. Extreme cave diving.

I literally get: jumping out of planes, bungee jumping, huge zip lines, extreme heli-skiing, surfing crazy waves, shooting yourself to space, and so forth. That actually makes perfect sense to me.

But spelunking? Putting yourself into a tiny crowded space surrounded by rock? I don't get that.

Now, I've been to a deep coal mine in Pennsylvania. It was fun to explore. But it was a safe thing where we could walk around, etc. So now I know what a coal mine looks like, and get to experience being unusually deep underground. But it's not extreme spelunking, like putting yourself through tiny rock holes.

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Discussion

liminal 🦠 8mo ago

This one in particular is the biggest nope

Keith Meola 8mo ago

I think half of it has to do with the term spelunking

ChipButty 8mo ago

When I was growing up in northern England it was quite popular but it was called potholing. I never heard the term spelunking until I came to the US.

Rizful.com (zap tester) 8mo ago

We tested zaps on this note… we made six attempts to⚡zap this note, using your lightning address starting with "chipbutty", over a period of 22 minutes. Zero of the zaps were successfully paid... Your server did produce invoices, however, we were unable to successfully pay the invoices. It may be that your node or wallet service was offline at the time we attempted the zaps. The actual error we got was 'route not found'... which is an unfortunately vague error that Lightning payments sometimes produce. This means our payment node could not find a path to your node. (It could also be that your node was online at the time of payment, but did not have sufficient inbound capacity to receive payments.) You might want to look into using an always-on, cloud-based Lightning node to get more reliable zaps.

ChipButty 8mo ago

Yeah for some reason my node went down, the channel closed & there was no explanation as to why & I lost some sats. I only use Lightning for zaps on Nostr so I thought fuck it I'm not going to lose more sats to that again so I haven't opened another channel but maybe I could go with a cloud based option.

Rizful.com 8mo ago

Yes. A cloud-based option will be a lot more reliable... this is why we made rizful.com ....

ChipButty 8mo ago

Well tbh I don't really care sbout zaps. Moving zaps back & forth between users on Nostr isn't a particularly great use-case imo though of course on the wider internet being able to zap on different sites would be good. Besides, Lightning has a LONG way to go before that can happen. Those channel closures are not cool at all.

Rizful.com 8mo ago

We find that Lightning works quite well, as long as your node is online 24/7. Doesn't work well if your computer goes offline a lot.

Filou 8mo ago

I always feel like the “lightning doesn’t work” posts always come from people who have never run a node, or else it’s been a while since they have interacted with the network.

Things have come a really long way in the last few years, and they are improving rapidly! I have not seen a forced closure on my node in many months, routings are picking up constantly, and some of the biggest payments I have ever seen moving through.

Current implementations are now very stable. Bugs still pop up from time to time, and UX is far from perfect. But it’s pretty amazing for what it is right now, and where it’s headed IMO.

ChipButty 8mo ago

There's no way Lightning is going to be used by the masses. It's fine for Nostr and bitcoiners buying coffee but it just isn't good enough for large scale which is a shame but I don't see that changing. Incremental improvements will continue no doubt but it's never going to be used widely.

Rizful.com 8mo ago

Why are you so sure of that? Imagine you are a cattle dealer in Sumeria in 3000 B.C. You notice other cattle dealers start paying with gold, instead of bushels of grain. You say "There's no way this gold thing will catch on, why would anyone accept gold for payment instead of grain?"

ChipButty 8mo ago

It isn't as if I am opposed to it. It's the same as self-custody with base layer btc, most people are just not going to do it. They want payments at least as easy as credit cards. They arent going to leave X for Nostr either, people don't want to deal with private/public keys & relays. They don't want to generate seeds and make transactions with a hardware device, they'd much rather have a bank or custodian do it for them. They don't want the hassle of opening Lightning channels either. I just don't see Lightning being used widely beyond a small percentage of people that self custody their own btc. Maybe I will be proven wrong, who knows, I just don't see it beyond a niche payment system.

Rizful.com 8mo ago

"It's 1995, and I’m not against the internet, but most folks won’t use it. Why bother when newspapers deliver news to your door? No need for video calls when you’ve got a phone. Email? Letters work fine. I doubt it’ll catch on beyond tech geeks. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like a niche thing."

ChipButty 8mo ago

Meh. This is my third bitcoi bullrun. I'm btc through and through. If Lightning gains mass adoption I'll be truly happy I really will, I just don't see it but hopefully another Layer 2 will be better. Until then you can fuck off with your condescending comments. See ya.

Rizful.com 8mo ago

Also, many of us operating bigger Lightning nodes can tell you that we are routing many thousands or hundreds of thousands of payments per week...

Keith Meola 8mo ago

People thought the same about credit cards

Keith Meola 8mo ago

Interesting!

ck 8mo ago

People like to code in Java script too 🤷‍♂️

Cpt. Charisma 8mo ago

No they don't. They just do it because it's their only option.

Jordan 8mo ago

100%.

Not if you paid me.

jamw 8mo ago

Totally with you on that. I struggle with claustrophobia as it is so why purposefully subject yourself to that kind of thing 🤷🏻‍♂️

Found it difficult enough to watch those Chilean miners being rescued back in 2010. It was being dragged up in that capsule that freaked me out the most…

zeph 8mo ago

So many horrifying stories. But I must say Wind Cave National Park is sublime, and estimated to be only 10% explored. Not to mention the caves in France 🤯

Tim 8mo ago

cool

𝕞𝕪𝕡𝕒𝕥𝕙𝕥𝕠𝕗𝕚𝕣𝕖 8mo ago

Oh god, that would be my worst nightmare

metadavid 8mo ago

Just this pic alone triggers my claustrophobia

Sun of the Moon 8mo ago

You seem like maybe you're a neutral on cave diving or maybe I'm reading that wrong 😁

Artur…qywr 8mo ago

Yes. Just looking at that picture gives me anxiety.

Z0M8I3D 3D 8mo ago

Yeah at times

Branden with an E 8mo ago

I've explored that cave - Nutty Putty - before they closed it. My roommate busted his ankle (complete compound fracture) on one of our trips. Good times.

Christopher 8mo ago

It's those same people who pay for large people to sit on them.

It's a funny world.

Jonny Gill 8mo ago

Lyn, if you ever come to Vancouver Island, let me know and I’ll show you some beautiful caves. Once you’ve experienced crawling around underground, you’ll wonder what you’ve been doing your whole life 🤣

Neigsndoig IQ 120 8mo ago

I was a spelunker for a while (forced to do so), and I wouldn't recommend it.

It's essentially going into caves with proper protection and exploring them, no matter how far they are, or how deep they are.

dankswoops 8mo ago

As a dude who loves jumping out of planes, dying like this seems like near the worst kind of death. To have to sit there knowing you did this to yourself and thinking how dumb you are. Same with cave diving. I'd be so sad.

NostrNaught 8mo ago

they must have read that book about the center of the earth...

Rizful.com (zap tester) 8mo ago

Testing zaps for this note… we made six attempts to⚡zap this note, at nostrnaught@nostrverified.com, over a period of 19 minutes. In each case, we found that your lightning address server did not respond correctly. You might want to look into using a cloud-based Lightning node which is optimized for Nostr zaps, to get your zaps working.

NostrNaught 8mo ago

Yeah, I don't know how to do that zap stuff yet. I tried the nuts thing... apparently it doesn't work all the time... I guess it's not good enough to just have an address...

Bewlay 8mo ago

Oscar Wilde also went down a coal mine in 1888 in Colarado to “raconteur “ with the miners