The Antidote to Nihilistic Narcissism

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“He’ll have a long life as long as he doesn’t know himself.”

In Greek mythology, this was the prophecy concerning Narcissus. Narcissus is better known for how the myth ends. He falls in love with his own reflection, which is where we get the word narcissistic. The ending refers back to the initial prophecy. When he saw his own reflection, he didn’t recognize it because he didn’t know himself.

In the middle of the myth is Narcissus rejecting the love of everyone else. The order matters. Narcissus only fell in love with himself after rejecting everyone. He didn’t reject everyone because he was in love with himself, but rather he fell in love with himself because he rejected everyone. His only target for love was himself.

I bring up this myth because this is the intellectual path that so many people take. They cynically reject belief systems one by one until they are left with nothing else. Lacking anything else to believe in, they turn to themselves and become completely self-centered. They become nihilistic narcissists.

Bad Parenting

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Look at the prophecy again. Narcissus will have a long life as long as he doesn’t know himself. Presumably, his parents made sure he didn’t know himself because Narcissus didn’t even recognize his own reflection. They did this with the best of intentions, to ensure he had a long life, yet clearly, a life staring into your own reflection is not exactly meaningful.

Think about what we tell our kids: “You can be anything you want to be.” “Go find what you’re passionate about.”

These platitudes specifically avoid giving children an identity. More subtly, not giving them an identity makes it harder for them to get attacked. We do this with the best of intentions, yet is this really what parents should be doing? To define yourself is an enormous burden, especially for children.

Nihilism as Default

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Think about the myth again. Narcissus rejected all would-be lovers.

Why?

He didn’t know himself. He didn’t have any basis by which he could even evaluate their fit. How could he since he had no self-awareness or self-understanding? He couldn’t solve for love because he didn’t know half the equation.

Identity is the basis of evaluating everything. Without grounding, nothing can be built. Without identity, belief is impossible and nihilism becomes the default.

The Appeal of Narcissism

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Nihilistic narcissism is a safe position. Because you never have to stand for anything and never take a risk, you can preserve your own ego, preserve your intellectual life as in the prophecy. The appeal is in preserving what you have, your own self, however empty and senseless you become.

But nihilistic narcissism completely strips meaning from life. You may live a long life staring into your own reflection, but it’s not a very fulfilling one. Lacking any sort of external north star, you are left with an internal north star, which if you follow, becomes navel-gazing. Ironically, narcissism is the end state of not knowing yourself.

Such a place is one of profound despair. There is no meaning and all you have to live for is yourself. Is it any wonder so many people are depressed?

Parents, give your kids the gift of identity. Your job is to help them know who they are. This should be natural, since the kids come from you. By knowing you, they learn to know themselves. By showing them who you are, you are really showing them who they are. By participating with them in community you are showing them who they are. By telling them your family history you are showing them who they are. Tether them to your identity so they can find meaning. Give them the solid foundation of knowing themselves.

Because identity is necessary to a meaningful life.

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Discussion

Awesome insights, thank you.

It made me wonder how these concepts play with the teachings of transcending the ego...

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Wow. Deeply profound. Incredible insight into society. 🙏

The order is important you're right. Self-love and self-respect are fundamental - thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

GD this is good! #[1] with another one...

💜🫂🧡

#plebdad

GD this is good! #[1] with another one...

💜🫂🧡

#plebdad

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An interesting thought for sure. It depends on one's own mind though. For example shakyamuni Buddha had a very similar story in his path to recognizing tathagatahood. The difference was dropping all belief and identities including seeing clearly the imaginary self identity.

With no thing to rest the mind on, subject and object are dissolved and things are seen to be just as they are, an infinitely interconnected web of life.

It all depends on how one sees.

One of my teachers/ friends shared this and I find it appropriate in my response here.

A common characteristic of most Sentient Beings is a compulsion to be grounded [in the Cyclic Illusory Existence called life] which they deem to be "normal." Two feet grounded in impermanence and the mediocrity of their sensory groupthink. And because "normal" controls and indoctrinates society, anyone seeking to unground from the limitations of sentient consciousness [that in which Yang and Yin is unintegrated] is viewed as abnormal. Thus, since Higher Human Potential [Supernormal] is considered a threat to "normal," resulting in those with an urge to explore the deeper aspects of life having little authentic guidance nor acceptance in "Normal's world," some turn to various addictions (i.e, drugs, alcohol, meditation, pornography, etc) in which to smother their longings, and depress their passions with mediocre distractions to survive.

"The probability that sentient beings can see reality as it is, is zero" - Donald Hoffman.

No wonder that ... "99.9% of the World's so-called wisdom, East and West, for the purposes of awakening, is about as useful as a glass of warm spit with a hair in it." Jed McKenna

Normal, the unintegrated, know nothing about Conscious Awareness ... nor Spirituality ... Spirituality is not being in conflict with Spirit (the in-breath/Yang and out-breath/Yin of duality. Spirit ... from the Latin spiritus, the Indo-European root meaning "to breathe."

A thousand years ago the term "one foot in the physical world, one in the spiritual world" was a description of the 84 Mahasiddhas ... mostly known as the founders of Vajrayana, Dzogchen and Mahamudra.

Having "one foot in the physical world, one in the spiritual world" is both a desire and a consequence ... like the Noble Eightfold Path. Many wanted to have "one foot in the physical world, one in the spiritual world," and very few had "one foot in the physical world, one in the spiritual world."

While most view the Noble Eightfold Path (right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right samadhi )as a practice leading to liberation from Samsara ... for them it's merely a simulation ... like Richard Dryfus in the film Close Encounters, playing with his mashed potatoes or building a mountain from trash ... feeling something ... knowing it means something ... yet only playing with a simulation.

Actually ... the Noble Eightfold Path is a characteristic summary regarding the consequence of Conscious Awareness. In other words ... those uncovering Self-Actualization ... having realized liberation from Cyclic Illusory Existence ... conduct themselves in an Eightfold Noble manner ... which should not and cannot be defined by the non-integrated ... whom Dr Clare Graves identified as First-tier thinkers.

Those at the Self-Actualized level (2nd-tier) said Dr Clare Graves, think in an almost incredibly different manner than any other human being had thought on Earth.

In Gabrielle Roth's 5Rhythms, First-tier thinkers are those who have yet to fully Let Go in the Chrysalis of Chaos. "First-tier thinkers cannot recognize the Second-tier on their own, and react negatively if challenged; lashing out whenever it is threatened" - Dr Clare Graves

"One foot in the Spiritual" has absolutely nothing to do with religion ... in fact, real Spirituality isn't accessed until all beliefs are Let Go.

"The way to emptiness is to empty - to let go." Gabrielle Roth.

"When empty of certainty ... divested of the power of association with some system or teacher or profession .. .no longer bound by the beliefs. attitudes, habits, dogmas, theories, and prejudices of others..." - Gabrielle Roth.

"Why would we want to be empty? Because emptiness is in fact the key to destiny. And each of us has a destiny here on this earth" - Gabrielle Roth

Letting Go DOES NOT mean "let go and let God or the belief of your choice" ... Letting Go means Letting Go ... To no longer hold on ... Not to your beliefs, your gods, your personal truths, your Me Stories, your faith, your hopes and fears, your seeking, your learning, to anything you like best about the you that you think you are, etc. The Dance of Chaos is about Unfeigned Surrender ... not a continual regurgitation of one's Me Stories.

Alan Watts put it like this ... "You abandon completely all belief; you abandon every sort of way of hanging onto life. You accept your complete impermanence; the prospect of your death of vanishing into nothing whatsoever, you see, and of not being able to control anything, of being at the mercy of what is completely other than you, and you let go of that, you see, this means that you even get rid of any God whatsoever, to do it fully. You don't have a thing left to cling to."

Only by fully Letting Go can integration be realized. And until integration is realized, two feet remain planted in the delusion ... the Loop of Samsara.

"Once we deeply inquire into the relative truth, it becomes more and more groundless and illusory. With such insight, we begin to realize that the main source of human woes is ignorance, or blind faith in the validity of the relative truth." Anam Thubten

Are you saying Buddha had a similar upbringing where a stable identity was instilled but it wasn't until he dropped his identity that "all belief and identities including seeing clearly the imaginary self identity" were possible?

Yes the story goes that his parents went to great lengths to keep him focused on himself and not aware of the 3 messengers. That's not to say not to have a self identity. Just know it's a useful tool for relative existence but ultimately interdependently originated.

This article will be helpful in integrating the 2 truths of relative and absolute.

https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/two-truths/

I'd like to believe that the stable foundation of identity that was provided allowed him to deviate from it and get rid of the concept altogether.

But who knows.

Buddhism struggles with the same problem that nihilism does. Buddhism appeals to an objective reality to say that individuals haven’t found objective reality and must let it go. However, the Buddhist is claiming to have found objective reality but then contradicts himself by saying it depends on how they see reality.

Truth is truth no matter how it is believed or seen.

I souks say you don't understand what the Buddhas teach. Study some chan or dzogchen then talk to me about it. Emptiness is often misunderstood as nihilism but the concept points to full/ emptiness. The Heart Sutra points to this as well.

Here is an article that reconciles the 2 truths of full/ empty.

https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/two-truths/

Truth is truth before the senses and mind create interpretations about it.

I agree with this 100%. Objectivity. So, how does Buddhism teach when you find objective truth and what if your truth is different than another’s truth? Which one then is true?

There is no disagreement absolute truth or what you may conceptualize as God is appearing as the relative, and the relative is the expression of the absolute. Anyone who has recognized an absolute truth has never disagreed. There's a saying a fisherman recognizes a fisherman.

When you look at the actuality of things the idea of creator and created come secondary to creating. Do you conceptualize God as a noun or a verb?

What is actual in a thing? What is not compounded through causes and conditions? For example a tree is made entirely of non- tree elements, is it not?

Maybe I’m missing the defining of terms. Relative truth is not objective truth. It’s perception and perceptions can be a faulty picture of absolute or objective truth.

A tree is a tree and it is composed of other things. The fact that a tree is composed of carbon and nitrogen and oxygen does not mean the tree ceases to be a tree.

Creator, created, and creating would still all be absolute truths.

Maybe I’m missing what you’re saying but it sounds like your saying relative truth is perception and objective truth is beyond that.

It also seems like you’re saying that all perceptions are false. But to do that you are claiming that one perception is true which is the narrators view that, in this case, the Buddhist has found. His perspective is the objective reality and ultimate truth. This is a logical contradiction and cannot be the case.

There is a point where they converge, in the non-conceptual reality. The paradox is resolved in seeing that absolute and relative are themselves ideas about it. What is the reality before one conceptualizes about it?

You may find that this is where God is revealed. But yes the tree is still a tree, it just has no permanence as a tree being made of non- tree elements.

This article will help you understand better what I'm saying about relative and absolute if you give it a read.

https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/two-truths/

But basically yes relative truth is what we experience through the five senses and mind. Absolute is before the senses and mind. They are different but not separate. You might say the world is the manifestation of God's will. Yet if God is then how can God be anything but thusness?

Basically what I'm saying is absolute truth is what always is in the midst of coming and going of provisional truth.

One more thing I will add that may clarify what I mean is when Jesus said "I am the truth, the life, and the way, no one comes to the father except through me. " he was not talking about his self entity but the light of his that sees and experiences through him.

It's very much like a zen koan. In fact when I read the Bible it's full of koans. I grew up catholic so I've read the Bible quite a bit. Reading and copying revelations after getting in trouble for asking questions they couldn't answer in Sunday school when I was 11 was one of the first times a samadhi experience happened to me.

The way I see it all religion is pointing at the same non-conceptual reality but using concepts to do it. Concepts about God is where they disagree in my experience. But God is by definition not conceptual. God represents what is actual of the reality under the vestment.

And that is my problem with everything you’re saying. You are appealing to an objective reality but have no proof or logic to back it. The quotation you state about Christ IS reflecting His claims about his self entity. He claimed to forgive sin, claimed to be God which is why people wanted to have him killed for blasphemy.

I hear what you’re saying but it has no logical backing. It’s all based on feeling and I can’t get behind it personally.

Appreciate the discussion Bodhi! Thanks for actually having an awesome conversation about differences and being a respectful person. This is why I love Nostr.

Week the problem with objective reality is its still defined by the senses when the discovery of the electromagnetic spectrum showed that what the senses are capable of interpreting is less than 1 millionth of reality.

Appreciate the conversation as well. It's easy to be kind when one doesn't hold views and beliefs very tightly. Character comes through in every action of mind, speech, and body.

Logic can only take one to the threshold but reality is not a concept. Concepts are the expression of reality appearing through the human mind that tries to comprehend reality.

How do you know any of that to be true? You’ve used some version of your feelings, emotions, thoughts, reason, etc.

Of course we use logic to understand direct experiencing. But reality is here before our concepts about it is it not?

Basically what I'm saying is the same thing as when Jesus said "the son of man has nowhere to rest his head. " reality is appearing as thought, form, feeling, perception, and consciousness interpreted through the five senses. Yet there is no thought, form, perception, feeling, or consciousness that is not the expression of reality.

So relative truth can only be an appearance of absolute truth.

For example the thought "i am" is the expression of present awareness.

The question still remains. How do you know that to be true?

Direct experiencing before mind and sense perception make interpretations about it.

This is a very simple recognition.

https://youtu.be/3vQHpfzQfBE

How are you experiencing it without your mind and senses?

The mind and senses are what is being experienced, aren't they? Like in the example the mind and senses are the coloring that appears in the glass but when you take the orange juice away the clarity is still there.

Right now as you have a thought that thought is directly seen, isn't it?

Here is one more pointer to what I'm saying.

Bringing this idea to a Christian frame of reference it might be said that God (what is actual) is seeing through you.

Your reasoning is circular.

Wow. One of the best "tweets" I've read in years. Great piece.

really cool never knew about the part of narcissus rejecting the world first before falling into the trap of loving himself.

jordan peterson says something similar about identity in that identity is negotiated, you can’t demand other people recognize your self-made identity.

it’s insane to go around telling other people to call you a surgeon if you have no credentials, skills or experience and in today’s culture demanding other people call you by your preferred pronouns. identity is negotiated/earned in a mature/civil social interaction.

only delusional/tyrannical/psychopathic people reject reality and demand other people give in to their self-aggrandizing demands.

the nihilistic element rings so true today as that really captures the mental state of people who reject the love of everyone else: incels, radical left and right.

A bit of a tangent here but to stick with the parenting stuff:

In Hinduism Ganesha (the elephant god son of Shiva and Parvati) found himself by learning from his parents directly.

Kartikeya (brother of Ganesha) instead traveled the world and found his identity without relying on his parents.

Ganesha had a much better sense of self as a result of this. He was in tune with who he was and as a result people gravitated to him. In Hinduism he is known as the remover of obstacles.

Kartikeya instead became the god of war.

Good parenting definitely played a role in this lol.

Thanks for writing this up. It really explains what is going on in the world. We have lost so much wisdom

Ecclesiastes!

Pure gold Jimmy