I lived in China when TikTok first launched. Never thought I would see something so stupid take off.

It did.

I resisted. I would never use something so dumb, mindless, and time-wasting.

5 years went by and it became the #1 app.

I still resisted. Never. Instagram began cloning it and forcing users to watch reels.

I deleted my Instagram.

YouTube is now bombarding my feed with shorts. Twitter is now cloning the scrolling video feed.

There is nowhere to hide.

Stop forcing this society destroying, attention-span wrecking, addiction driven crap on me.

I will never submit.

#deletesocialmedia #exceptnostr

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Discussion

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word

Well maybe you can make a try to find the other side of coin.

#[0] is right in everything he says.

Except for the Nostr part. Most people that like Nostr would love if all the Tiktok features were implemented in Nostr clients. Most Nostr clients probably share these views or will do it expecting to gain something from that.

Nostr already sucks with these "like" emoji buttons.

Luckily we can still make clients that do not implement these things and hopefully in the future we will see these things get removed from other clients too.

The like buttons and stories and all that will win though, watch.

It’s like WalMart coming to town. People might want mom n pop stores all day but will go to the WalMart for cheaper prices and convenience. Same with like buttons and other addictive functionality in social media apps.

Deep rooted automatic psychological responses. Impossible to resist at scale. Best you can do is customize your environment to your taste.

Maybe apps should give settings options to hide likes, media etc.

Which is fine IMO. Since nostr is a protocol, all kinds of stuff can AND WILL be implemented on top of it. No need to like everything. Would be like the need to like everything that's happening on the internet protocol.

No. We just use the interface that fits our need, and we can all be happy and zap each other ⚡ ziuorrrrpp

Wow, you're so bold in your predictions.

ForTuNe faVOrs tHE BoLd

It’s easier to build a network when you leverage the dopamine drug. A network of drug addicts.

What client is your favorite?

Gossip so far.

Isn't it annoying to you that gossip doesn't fetch images?

Sometimes yes, but overall I like it. I don't want to be looking at horrible bad taste memes all day.

Sure, but just having the link in there really disrupts the flow in my opinion. Especially when the text in the note is referencing the image.

https://github.com/cryptofolyo/demasupp/blob/main/whitepaper.MD

wrote a whitepaper

how demand can meet supply on NOSTR

#[2] I’m curious why you don’t like the “like” button? Because it encourages posting what you think people will like?

It's just a cheap meaningless interaction made for machines and for keeping people addicted.

I want to like this, but not sure whether I should!

Me too

😂 the man who hesitate’s is lost 🤷‍♂️

how do you feel about zaps?

Like is the fiat version of the zap.

this is a good take 😝

👍👍⚡⚡

They're better since they are not as cheap. Zaps are more interesting when combined with use cases that aren't just tips, though.

thinking content gating in some way? a new take on paywalls?

I don't know how, I was thinking more like about people accepting zaps for selling goods and services without leaving their clients, as #[0] suggested once, or crowdfunding things, or offering to do things in exchange for zaps, I don't know.

It could get even more interesting if clients dedicated to other kinds of content used zaps too. It's a powerful concept.

thats the plan

service (checkout service):

seller:

register product -> share to nostr button

user:

sign up on checkout service just once -> put pubkey, shipping details just once

nostr:

user zaps product -> nip57 receipt comes back to nostr

checkout service:

receives nip57 event -> fulfills purchase -> begins last mile process

and in turn, will never ever have to leave a client again, after one time set up

Something like

"type": "product",

"itemname" : "milkpowder"

"brand" : "nestle"

"qty" : "1"

"unitqty" : "kg"

"description" : "additional product description"

"transactiontype": "sell",

"location": "gpslocation",

"homedelivery": "yes",

"serviceRadiusInMiles": "2"

"amount" : "2000"

"currency" : "sats"

Here the seller of product or service provider broadcast his product or service and the attributes which will be searchable for a buyer nearby

A buyer or person who require a service can also broadcast to the network similarly.

escrowers : In addition to buyer and seller there can be local escrow people who make a security deposit and provide an escrow service between the buyer and seller for a percentage fee. The fee percentage will be displayed. escrower reputation will be shown to buyers and sellers based on the ratings provided by the buyer and the seller after each transaction ( localbitcoin model )

matchmakers : will keep screening the posts to match demand with supply manually and propose a deal between the buyer and seller and also arrange for the transporters - for a matchmaking percentage.

trainers : are experienced users who knows to setup escrow accounts - add shops as sellers - train the escrowers and shops to setup their accounts - they can gain a percentage of each transaction gained by the escrowers

transporters : car owners , bike owners etc who are ready to pick and drop the product from the shops location to the user location , they can define their rates per kilometre per kilogram with minimum rates, nature of urgency of the transport etc

- if we can form a passionate team to build a nostr client to serve these , then i am interested

DM me

nostr market place

Would be good to have some way to restrict fake charities etc abusing the functionality - could become a big problem down the road

Powerful + risky = dangerous.

Yes zaps are powerful, but receiving zaps can be faked. If people and apps promote zaps as a way to send / receive value, they're priming others to fall for fake signals.

"Top most zapped post" / "most zapped article in this store" / "5 people zapped Bob 1 BTC for a DM convo" -- no way to tell if zaps are fake or real, but impact and social pressure for viewers is real.

How influencers shitcoin now to get money out of gullible people, zaps will do the same.

Grifters will always find ways to game the system.

Oh wow I never thought about this. You can just zap yourself to make a post look really popular.

Nostr Only Fãs with zaps? Kkkk

What sets zap amount of sats?

in damus there’s a place to configure default zap amount. guessing it’s up to each client to expose as they choose?

Cheers. (After making 5 zaps at 1000⚡️)

Is there a NIP for PoW-based likes?

That’s an interesting take. To me they are cheap but not meaningless. They are the lightest weight signal that something has value. Given that 90% of people don’t write and just read on social media, it’s a good type of interaction to have imo.

Now if you have all the posts in the world in one database and one algorithm that pushes the most liked posts on everyone that’s a different story. If you get addicted to the dopamine hit of people liking your posts that’s also an issue. But the reason we get a dopamine hit is because your peers sending you social signals that your words are valuable is an incredibly important part of being human.

I found the last part enlightening. I think getting small amount of Sats for posts will be even more addicting than a like though.

You made good points, but I think being human is seeing the reactions of your peers directly in their faces as you say something. Likes are an approximation of that, but I don't know if it gets close enough to be worth all the drawbacks.

But to be honest the nastier part is probably the notifications stuff always calling you to see that some random person you don't even know or value has clicked a button.

Another issue is that a like from someone that only likes things they actually do like should be worth more than a like from these crazies that just keep liking everything they see, but there is no real way to measure this -- while in the real life we can often tell fake likes from real likes.

To me, the like on Nostr is more of a nod to a passing stranger or a slight hand wave from the steering wheel to a driver being Courteous. It’s just a “hey that’s a good comment/thought/picture” but not worth a full conversation. I could careless about the notification though. I guess it’s a good quick signal that folks are listening and either like or don’t like the content in a minimalist sense. Zaps are a much more appreciation of the content and replies are interactions that want to take it to a conversational human level.

Agree in terms if organic use, but its thr exception imo. FB ingrained the behavior for likes way before bird app. The pattern that doesn't seem to go away is engagement farming across all subsequent modeled services. Insta collapsed under this weight, and bird app has too. Reddit remained steadfast for up/down votes, but that gets abused also.

As soon as there is a metric, people start gaming it to pamp their profile/post/advert, and then gaming signals end up outweighing organic use. This is true also for follower/following metrics. Filtering the tribal affirmation likes economy from discussion is an unsolved problem.

Almost every popular social media platform limits a post’s reach based on how often the user checks their notifications. On TikTok, posts reach to more ppl if a user turns their notifications off and close the app for few hours after posting - which is a known method amidst influencers. Notifications r there to call users to open the app and spend more time on it and if they don’t they try to generate more likes/notifications. So yes those features were created to make platforms more addictive.

Wow I didn’t know they were doing this. That’s crazy but it makes sense.

I don’t think these features weren’t added to make the platforms more addictive originally though. They were added because they encoded valuable social signals that weren’t being surfaced before. They only became a lever in the addiction slot machine after algorithmic timelines.

It’s a fine line but it’s an important one I think. Because in social networks the line between adding value for users and being addictive is verrrry thin. In a way all humans are addicted to relationships.

It’s a fine line indeed. And yes it’s a common tip Tiktokers share on how to take videos viral. I watched a guy who said he created 10 videos, saved them as drafts then posted all at once n didn’t open the app for over a week. He got his first 1M views. Of course he already had an active account with followers.

The challenge with social platforms is that everything is asynchronous, it’s not like a conversation in real life where the feedback loop is in real time. We’re trying to facilitate dialog over a broadcast medium.

What about limiting likes notifications to just your contacts/follows?

No

This is what https://iris.to already does and we are going to do it in Nos as well. It results in seeing fewer reactions/replies to your messages but it does solve a lot of other problems too.

I like this post (how hard was that?). Instead of sending large integers across the interwebs, I'll pay tribute by adding this:

In addition to all these good points, there's also the fact that unless nostr turns into something that is not nostr (i.e. not meaningfully decentralized) or someone invents magic, there is no way to get accurate aggregate real-time counts of anything (not likes, not followers, not anything). And what are "likes" without counts of likes?

There are many ways that decentralized social media is going to diverge from what people are used to on centralized platforms. As I think you wrote somewhere, part of nostr is embracing the chaos.

> I think being human is seeing the reactions of your peers directly in their faces as you say something.

100% agree. Most of our digital interactions are a poor model of the real thing. But I think a lot of the issues you are bringing up are mostly issues because they have been used on platforms for global discourse. Our brains weren’t made for global discourse and I think that’s where a lot of the psychological issues with social media come in.

Relationships need trust and conversations need context. Platforms like Twitter have low trust and context. Contrast this with a Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp group of your closest friends or family - high trust and high context. I think the middle is the sweet spot for healthier social media. Likes from people you trust and have context with are meaningful and useful.

This is why we’ll probably have likes in Nos, but we’ll also be restricting your view in most places to people you follow and people they follow (like secure scuttlebutt, and https://iris.to). This creates a medium trust/context space. This view restriction isn’t perfect, but it’s a start, and I hope we see lots of experiments in this area on Nostr.

good point!speaker and listener are not only two messaging terminal!

Everytime I like something I also send at least a single sat. Maybe just the sat is all that is needed 🤔

Liked and zapped

stacker.news doesn't support 'likes' its sats, reply or gtfo. There's no reason a nostr client couldn't succeed on this model.

Wrote a whitepaper to utilise NOSTR platform to mix and match local demand with local or global supply

https://github.com/cryptofolyo/demasupp/blob/main/whitepaper.MD

Submitted a NIP

Have few other ideas like

- In addition to two options - one that i can see my posts and replies and posts from people whom i follow and the second option is that i can see all posts from all other people connected to the relays. ( As of now these are mostly irrelevant junk posts )

There can be a third option which filters and show me most relevant posts from people nearby me from my own city whom i dont follow yet. so that i from these filtered posts i can choose new people to follow. It can also be more popular post from more popular authors located far away from me as well.

- To avoid junk posts and to promote satoshi tippings instead of likes - The visibility of the post can be based on the tips received for each posts - Part of the tip can go to the author of the post and part of the tip can go to the relay and part can go to the NOSTR foundation to enable marketing spendsv

- using NOSTR i should be able to discover like minded people using same hashtag in posts located nearby me

- using NOSTR i should be able to discover like minded people using similar hashtag in posts and who put posts which are more relevant and more tipped by satoshis even if they are located far away from me.

- the visibility and kilometer range of a post can be further increased if i have other posts posted by me on the same hastag already tipped with satoshis - this will help the best authors globally on a hashtag to be visible for people far away.

- So for example if i am a dentist and want to connect with all the nearby dentists within my city it is possible to do that.

- If i search for root canal hashtag i can see the posts from all dentists nearby me on root canal even if its less tipped. But i can see all the heavily tipped posts even if they are far away from me so that i get the best content in the relevant topic i am searching for

Shortening attention spans on the daily

Right in the nail! Mass stupidization is planned to control you... Resist! Zap

Preach!

💯

wen tiktok on nostr tho?

🫠

#[0]

#[0]

#[0]

We have an insta that we’ve had for years. We use it for marketing mostly. Every time I post I find myself mindlessly watching someone make interesting pastry in Bulgaria or skate boarding Corgis. It’s so weirdly engaging and fun. Point of view - I marvel at how professional the production is on this content. Has the whole human race become wildly witty and able to make advertising standard video? Are we living in a sim? Just seems like an oddly specific flowering of talent. The human race wakes up one morning and finds themselves the masters of the 10 second video with lighting, cuts and pans 🤷🏻‍♀️

To each their own! Maybe I’m just getting old and jaded. I prefer the real world and reading nowadays 😂

Me too. Hardly ever take phone with me. Just wondering at people. They’re amazing. Or meta make the stuff themselves?

Cool idea but. Let’s be real .

People love this shit . Short form content dominates for some reason . I try to avoid it aswell .

Not an idea, just my thoughts. Fuck all social media except Nostr. I know people will continue to use the digital opium. I’m out tho.

#[0]

TikTok 是一种电子毒品,如果没有法律限制,大多数普通人会成瘾。

TikTok is an electronic drug, and without legal restrictions, most ordinary people will become addicted.

TikTokは電子ドラッグであり、法的制限がなければ、ほとんどの一般人が中毒になるでしょう。

TikTok es una droga electrónica, y sin restricciones legales, la mayoría de las personas comunes se volverán adictas.

It’s payback for the opium wars.

bro God love everyone

Followed

That scrolling video crap is mind numbing

#[0]