Christ said those who love this life will not see the kingdom of heaven. So loving God isn't out of gratefulness for this life, it must be for being grateful for going to heaven. But loving God so you don't go to hell doesn't make you good. That's a selfish love. V confused.
Discussion
Isnāt loving god for heaven also selfish?
Hence my confusion. i definitely think it's more about loving your neighbor than anything. Christ said that himself. The main points are love thy God and love thy neighbor as thyself.
I just donāt know why worship is necessary. Letās imagine two extreme cases.
One person is a Christian. He devotes his life to the church. Attends every Sunday mass. Never lies. Never cheats. Never steals.
The other person is not a Christian but he is a good person. Never lies. Never cheats. Never steals. Feeds the homeless. Helps the community. Does everything that the perfect Christian would do. The only thing is that he is not Christian. He doesnāt pray to the same god that the Christian does.
Why is the second person evil and worthy of going to hell for eternity? Why is worshipping god such a big deal?
I've argued exactly this point to my pentacostal family. I don't think that's what happens. I think God judges you based on your heart and your actions and the rest there is no exact formula for. It's case by case. That's a resounding point for Christian public figures like Charlie Kirk. Nothing about Christianity is collective. Each is judged according to his own behavior.
But even goodness is subjective. What is good and evil? Killing is evil which I agree with. But Iām not going to stop eating meat. A lot of animals are killed to sustain our nutritional needs.
What is considered good today may have been considered evil in the past. And what is considered evil today could be considered good in the future. Slavery was not considered evil before but it is considered evil today. Why doesnāt religion ban slavery? Because religion doesnāt view slavery as evil. But whatās more evil than slavery? And if you are against slavery, then that means you believe your morality is superior to that of religion.
Killing is evil sure. But what if the guy you kill was about to run off with some child in a sketchy looking van? You arenāt evil because you killed. Again, itās subjective. What was the motive of the murder? What is your intent? Oh he was actually the kidās dad and they have to get to the hospital to see his mom. Does that make you evil? No, you thought you were saving the child from a life of trauma and God only knows what. God knows that difference, I believe. Spiritually and emotionally, your heart was in a good place. And there were people back in the day who thought it was evil just like there are people today who donāt have a problem with it. None of this is absolute. Now youāre getting into the philosophy that I canāt think for God, I can only tell my own interpretation. Religion is captured by the people who are the āauthoritiesā of it. Because they want MOONNNEYEYYYY. You think God stopped all the same works He did in the bible just because itās the future? Hell no. We just donāt write it down as much anymore. And if you did youād just end up in the same boat as Joseph Smith. Youād have a cult following (small c, as in not evil, just a small dedicated group of followers) but you wouldnāt upend modern christianity, despite how much it needs it. I think a lot of this is getting off on a tangent to your initial point tho. Do you think slavery is evil? Donāt have slaves. Oh you had slaves and now youāre in heaven. God, Iām guessing, would probably be like āThatās fucked up bro. Iām gonna count that one as a sin. Next slide.ā I could think of several things more evil than slavery. A lot of them probably happened on a plane called the Lolita Express. Letās calm down with the assumptions tho. lol. You can think slavery is bad and still think religion is a good moral compass. I think youāre hung up on the idea that if you believe in God, you have to believe EVERY SINGLE WORD in the bible. Mabye thatās not the case, maybe Iām going to hell. Time will tell. Tho I have doubts about hell too.
When it comes to religion and truth, itās either all true and correct or itās all nonsense. For example, religions claim to be the ultimate truth and the only path to salvation. All religions claim this. So when a claim is made that requires you to believe in it completely, then it should be scrutinized at every level. Since all religions fail under this level of scrutiny, the religion is flawed. And if all religions are flawed, then there is no way to distinguish between any of them being better than another.
I donāt buy that for a second. For one, satanism is not about being a path to salvation. Itās about living while youāre alive because there is nothing after. But Christianity and satanism espouse something like the golden rule. Wildly different institutions yet both espouse respect and responsibility. I like christianity and feel that it is more correct because I agree with the premise that there is something beyond this world and beyond the skin, that God would want to participate in his creation (Christ) and because I see the merits in self control of all kinds. But satanism espouses correcting oneās mistakes and employing logic. Doesnāt mean Iām satanic. Also, religion and truth are not the same thing. Religion is manās attempt to live a meaningful life. It can give him meaning and direction when he has none, even if ultimately, it ends up being the āwrong religionā. Truth exists beyond all of that. Religion is a completely subjective experience. Truth exists whether you experience it, whether you employ it, whether you find it, respect it, or believe it or not. Religion is the attempt at knowing truth. Truth is objective fact. Not the same, and only one, in my view, is absolute.
Religion is manās attempt to outsource meaning and morals. You can determine your own morals and meaning for yourself. Historically, most people choose religions to do that for them. Iām using the word choose loosely because most people donāt choose religion. Theyāre born into it and brainwashed as children.
But the ultimate problem in this discussion is that you have to choose the right religion. If you pick the wrong religion, you go to hell. Thatās the problem. Thatās why it doesnāt make sense. Thatās why I asked about worship. Does it really fucking matter if the person was good but worshipped the wrong god? Or didnāt worship at all. A person who has done more good in this world than a Christian will end up in hell simply because he worshipped Buddha or shiva. How is that right?
It is that also, yes. Nothing is absolute across all people. You go to hell, or you just die and thereās nothing after, or you die and come back as a squirrel, or you die and feed a tree and become part of the collective consciousness. I donāt think it is right. I wouldnāt be surprised at all if Christ only actually said love thy neighbors as thyself and the pharisees who wrote that were like āWeāre gonna make SOOOOO much money if loving God is even more important than that, and tithing is part of the ritual.ā
āOh shit yeah! Write that down!"
This is a good point that raises another important question. Why would god give us something that is so easily corruptible like religion? And then heās just like yeah figure it out yourselves or go to hell. Makes no sense.
All the other shit I take with a pinch of salt, including the worship. I don't think you're mandated to m thank God when things go right necessarily but it makes sense that if God made us, is our father, He wants to be part of our lives. If I build an aquarium, I want to interact with the fish. God made a fuggin universe. So yeah, it makes sense to me that he'd want to play some part in it.
Do you thank your parents every day for bringing you into this world? Do you thank them every time something good happens to you simply because they raised you as a child? Do you show complete and total obedience toward them no matter what they ask of you? Do you throw away your life plans and dreams to do what they want? The answer to all these questions is no. Just because our parents brought us into this world and raised us, does not mean we owe them anything. We did not ask to be born. We did not ask to be raised by them. They did it of their own free will.
In fact, Iād argue that raising a child simply to have them appreciate and show gratitude toward you for the rest of their lives is evil.
Your parents had a child and raised you because thatās what they wanted to do. Just like god supposedly created us because he wanted to. If someone does what they want to do, and it somehow affects your life, that doesnāt mean you magically owe them anything. This line of thinking is reminiscent of those statists that argue if you donāt like paying taxes then you should just leave. Itās a weak argument.
My parents don't have infinite wisdom and omnipotence. I'm not disagreeing with you, again, the worship part seems real weird to me too. (Tho I get your making sense of it too) If anything, it does look like both God and our parents made most of selfishly, or on accident. For all we actually know, life on earth is what happens when you don't put the universe in a cool dry place. And yeah, that would have a tinge of evil. You wrote that like I said you're wrong. What I was saying is that just because the book says worship Him does not mean that's actually what he wants. I'll point out, Christ said you should HAVE no other gods before God. He did not say worship him with your every bone. At least not in that verse. I don't remember every word.
Nietzche pointed out the other end of the spectrum of worship: you worship something internal. It can be a self growth. A discovery. A metamorphosis.
The traditional form of worshiping something external is a self emptying and making room for something else. āGodā or nature or the universe. This is sorta the mode we have to be in to ālearnā something from someone/something else.
āThere is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship.ā -David Foster Wallace
Damn I havenāt seen you on nostr in a long time lol still doing the 1 sat zaps huh š
Itās been awhile š had to do some āinternal searchingā back there.
How did the search go?
lol good question. Lost as ever and barely holding it together.
I did find Georges Bataille and his ideas on āexcess energyā, āself destructionā, and the āaccursed shareā. It probably explains Jesus and his āhuman sacrificeā and bitcoinās āenergy sacrificeā. He suggests the waste is necessary.
If waste is necessary, then itās not wasteful. When electricity is transferred from the grid to the hospital that is providing life support to someone , some energy will get wasted. But if it saves a life, then it wasnāt a waste.
Understood. Agreed. His hypothetical was like āif we only consume what we need then there would be no war (because we produce more than we need). But since there is war, then there is something interesting and universal about this act of self destructionā¦ā itās a pretty subtle thought.
This is definitely beyond my pay grade but if matter cannot be created nor destroyed, then how can anything ever be wasteful? š¤·āāļø
Wasted electricity just goes back into the universe as energy for something else right?
Youāre speaking in terms of physics, heās probably speaking in terms of society. I meanā¦ nothing in physics explain why the hell the pyramids were built. Massive sacrifice of human lives, energy and materials.
Idk if there was a massive sacrifice of human lives
He suggests the thing behind that is also behind the reason why we go to war. We have a need to burn off the excess.
Itās probably why youāre zapping 21 sats instead of 1 š
1 sat zap is wasteful because youāre paying more in fees than actual value being sent.
š I didnāt know that. Do you not receive anything?
āExpenditure beyond necessity is the essence of sovereignty.ā ā Georges Bataille
Sovereignty, for Bataille, is not about control but about the freedom to waste, to sacrifice, to transcend utility.
So youāre saying that you have little soverignty since youāre only able to waste 1 sat per zap. Meanwhile Iām able to waste 21x the amount that you can. Do better, become more sovereignš«”
