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In a recent talk, nostr:npub1s33sw6y2p8kpz2t8avz5feu2n6yvfr6swykrnm2frletd7spnt5qew252p makes the case correctly that we should stop using the term “custodial,” as this is the language that helps the legacy system define self-custody or their term “unhosted” to suggest that owing your own property is somehow not normal or acceptable.

He goes on to say that we should simply call anything where we don’t hold our own keys an account, the same as a bank. But what should we call a “wallet” (also an inaccurate word) where we directly own the asset? I still haven’t found the best way to say it.

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Discussion

TKay 1y ago

I totally agree with this.

The lingo we use in the Bitcoin space was a lazy attempt to make things familiar. It worked so far, but we all know it’s not accurate.

Language is very very important, and it will define and shape how Bitcoin grows.

I really hope we as a community can find better language to explain things to the next billion bitcoiners.

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

I dislike the term “sovereign” because it’s become too politicized. It may work for a small number of people already versed in what it means to hold your own keys, but to outsiders, it sounds like a bunch of whack-job preppers who live in an off-the-grid compound. That’s not going to go over well in the normie world.

Nathan 1y ago

Language matters, nostr:npub1s33sw6y2p8kpz2t8avz5feu2n6yvfr6swykrnm2frletd7spnt5qew252p is awesome

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

What if we called them “indie wallets.” Everyone knows what indie band is. We’re taking back ownership of money the way musicians took back ownership of music.

7671117f... 1y ago

Holding your own keys should be the healthy standard, the proper way to do this. Calling it indie makes it sound like something out of the ordinary, like an alternative.

modulo 1y ago

A #bitcoin “wallet” is also a misnomer, when in reality the closest comparison is a key purse, but few people know what one is

For the idea of the natural state of holding the keys the first thing to come to mind is to say you ‘hold’ #bitcoin, and call out others hold an IOU. I’ll give some more thought to it

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

Agreed, neither works well.

modulo 1y ago

You could say you“own” or “control” #bitcoin whereas another person with bitcoin on an exchange like Coinbase does not own or control #bitcoin, but the nuance would be lost on a neutral listener

The dilemma stems from our current state of not being able to differentiate between cash and credit in modern #fiat world. Going back to a pre-#fiat world, the wording used would be “payable in specie” or similar specific wording

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

Bearer wallet. Still not perfect because it uses the word wallet, but it better defines the asset.

modulo 1y ago

Bearer wallet—not bad. Not the best as you said but not the worst. Test drive it for a while, see how it goes

Then try en specie for entertaining conversations

Actually, call it like it is—you have keys. Keys to unlock the coins (transactions) on the blockchain. Time to let the wallet terminology go. Along these lines use keyrings, or time to bring back chatelaine

Drooly McDrool 1y ago

Bearer asset control device. Bacd.

Do you have your bitcoin bacd?

Dan Wedge 1y ago

Signing device?

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

That has already been defined as something like a ColdCard or SeedSigner. You’d have to include software on a phone or computer in this, so it’s hard to define what the “device” is. That term works for specialized single-purpose devices not more general ones.

Drooly McDrool 1y ago

Who cares, thought the point here was to take ownership over the terms used. Make up a term and stick to it until "they" start using our terminology.

Signing device, signing app, private digital asset safe/secure vault, private digital asset secure manager, etc etc

Make up shit and then own it!

AHWhite 1y ago

What about "sovereign vault"?

George Vaccaro 1y ago

That's good. Along the same lines, "personal vault"?

The Big D-Base 1y ago

How about...Private Property

BTCrevolutionary 1y ago

What’s wrong with wallet? It’s a term everyone understands as a tool to hold money.. might not perfectly describe what you are doing when store your Bitcoin but it gets the job done.

vinney...axkl 1y ago

Actual private property.

vinney...axkl 1y ago

Actual private property.

nostr:nevent1qqsf256hjtkwuq7vs6mcwstq5s2pm5gwh66we9clmssaf8lwfupadxqpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qgswum4p82uluhz2dr40nvdrflspffntgqghc58w9fs57nx6jkdkuaqrqsqqqqqp0zuu6h

I3_I2_I_Z 1y ago

I think wallet works well for actual software that hold the keys, like a real wallet can hold cash. Perhaps custodial wallets need to stop using the term wallet and be called an account or just an app.

Hanshan 1y ago

We've been saying it for years already.

"There is no such thing as an unhosted wallet"

There are wallets and their are custodial wallets. "Accounts" is fine too.

Bitcoin Carlin 1y ago

IOU vs Bearer or Actual

fiatjaf 1y ago

This was literally the rationale behind naming https://github.com/lightning/blips/blob/master/blip-0017.md "hosted channels" and not "custodial channels".

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

Interesting. I didn’t know that.

Anda 1y ago

I like vault, safe/locker, or reserves.

We want something that captures security, but also accessibility by the owner.

The Daniel 🖖 1y ago

But what would you call a hot wallet secured with your own keys, including Lightning? That’s none of the words you mentioned.

Anda 1y ago

You could do a QuickVault or InstaVault in the case of a hot wallet.

Or you could change the noun to be informal holders like Pod, Stash, Port(er).