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I’ve seen far less constitutionally important cases be funded with millions of dollars and nominally “straw “plaintiffs that just barely have standing sufficient support because of action simply to get the matter to the supreme court, and yet these two individuals couldn’t muster funds to survive through trial when everyone seems to agree that they should’ve won which means when they lost appeal would’ve been all the more valuable

My point is there seems to be something more to this story. Marty Bent just had that lawyer on regarding censorship and he is working basically for free and yet these guys couldn’t rally legal support? Had to plea because they couldn’t afford it? It just doesnt seem right to me.

Enki 1w ago

Yeah, I definitely agree. It feels like there's something more that we're not seeing publicly.

kind of feels like one of two directions is where the answer is.

1. there are complex and or extenuating circumstances some are aware of keeping people quiet.

2. the “bitcoin space” is actually a larp full of disingenuous cowards and wannabe influencers who just want to be popular and rich.

Enki 1w ago

Definitely something in between. Sadly, there are a lot of larps here in the Bitcoin space, Who only really care about number go up and being rich.

And the more I think about it, it does kind of feels like there might be some extenuating circumstance or something we're just not seeing or know about that could be causing people to keep quiet. The extenuating circumstance could be as simple as the government wanted to make an example of them no matter what And defence saw the writing on the wall. Or it could be something completely different.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Marty isnt being tried in federal court. You cannot compare a consultation and criminal proceedings in a clearly politically motivated trial. Please stop simping for the state.

https://youtu.be/BR6vcplaFus

You should re-read what I posted before being an asshole. Be an asshole after you actually understood what I said.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

I fucking read it as well as a few others of yours on this and the meassage is clear. I will be an asshole to everyone on this issue who simps for the state. 🖕

R 1w ago

Taking a plea was probably the smart move if they wanted to minimize their pain. It was the wrong move if they wanted others to be inspired to support them with money amd time. No one pays to watch a movie where the hero takes the deal. If Ross had a five year sentence from taking a deal, probably few would have fought for him either.

Nic ⛄ 1w ago

From listening to the interview, it seems the core issue wasn’t the money itself, but that the potential maximum sentence made fighting the case too risky. They believed the judge was biased against them, so pleading guilty felt safer than risking a possible 25 year sentence.

Add to that though the confounding plea deal. If they had better funding and a more aggressive defense, they could have gotten a better deal and likely negotiated a situation where, notwithstanding the deal, the government wouldn’t be seeking the maximum sentence on what was plead to.

Please understand though Im talking out of my ass because I dont know what happened behind closed doors. Who the hell knows, but if they had unlimited funding that typically leads to better results in my experience.

The funding issue is one side, and you raise some good questions.

The more significant issue is how to present an understandable (& compelling) defense to a jury. Money doesn’t solve that outright.

Prosecution has the easy arguments; defense has to explain COINJOIN to mega normies? Fight was over before it started.

Not to mention that this is was SDNY so the deck was already stacked against them.

Also have to explain self custody versus not, why whirlpool is different, key pairs etc etc etc

ALL in opening, else you are immediately on the back foot.

Jurors make their judgement calls within 20 min of both sides’ openings. Even quicker sometimes in super technical cases

whit 1w ago

No one #INDIVIDUAL has enough money to bring down the #US government.

That’s the point. When 99% UNITE & demand their freedoms is when we win. 🏆

My personal fantasy is that the power that wanted to make political prisoners of the sammy devs was powerful enough that anyone with money and connections knew it'd be more trouble than it would be worth to pour money into a defense.

My instinct is that this is closer to the truth than we know and it could be far more insidious, e.g., maybe they got a different deal to _not_ fight this case. That is a super scandalous allegation and I’m not saying its true, I’m just saying that I don’t buy that a case that everyone seems uniformly convinced was so constitutionally important couldn’t get sufficient funding for it, I just don’t buy that.

How would you think about putting together defense arguments in this case?

I wouldn’t because I don’t have access to the information that his lawyers did, I wouldn’t even begin to pretend how to do that, but the problem is they apparently couldn’t generate money to defend themselves which is curious to me.

Yes i understand you didn’t take discovery in this case. My point is that i also don’t buy the idea that funding was the constraint.

This was a losing fight from the jump. Their lawyers probably recognized this.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'll guess that a lot of capital was put into smoothing things over to get the desired outcome. Blackmail, favors, threats, money, etc. Those guys made some kind of enemy, and that enemy is destroying them.

And everyone is just yelling Injustice! from the sidelines without lifting a finger. Like you said, very fishy.

Fishy indeed, thank you for not only reading, but actually taking a second to understand what I saying.

Anytime 🫂

I see a panther sneaking into a house, killing its inhabitants, and the neighbors watching it happen yelling, "Trespassing is illegal! The panther should have never crossed the fence!" As if predators really care about laws.

Bill Cypher 1w ago

You are the second person other than me I saw post about this that isn't trapped in the mental framework of statism being valid.

And then there were 3. Let's see who else we can get.

. 1w ago

fragile egos couldn't handle their truth

I saw a dev here say "rest in piss" when they were raided

Samourai stood for something that most could never muster the courage to do, actually separate money from the state

most want lambo not freedom

My point is that when seriously important cases arise there is no shortage of litigation support for them. There are entire law firms set up to bring and defend important cases and yet there were crickets here in the context where everyone yelling and screaming for these guys seems to agree that it was an incredibly important case. So where was the litigation support? This is my world, I will tell you that when something is critically constitutionally important or is a matter of general public importance lawyers flock to work on it for free. The absence of it here is curious to me as someone who works in this industry.

. 1w ago

I get your confusion. I am personally shocked. But instead of shifting blame or suspicion onto the devs it should be an indictment of the broader bitcoin and legal community for not understanding the implications. I for one have been banging on about it, only for all the podcasters and influencers with an audience to remain badically silent the whole time until keone made his own last ditch effort.

Ask the saylor fags, the knots dipshits, the etf enjoyers, the inscribers, the quantums and the bitcoin magazine conference promoters why they haven't given a shit?

ARVIN 1w ago

💯 👉 “most want lambo not freedom”

Diacone Frost 1w ago

maybe the answer is dead simple: those particular devs are dicks and nobody want to help them.

(and yes i am aware of broader implications of this case regarding freedom of speach and tech)

Could be a factor but even shitbag litigants get help when a broader industry stands to benefit from their success.

MAHDOOD 1w ago

I didn't donate because I don't believe in wasting my money on a fraudulent justice system. And I'm not interested in putting my government name on a pardon list either.

Bill Cypher 1w ago

Kidnapping victims don't get pardons, they just get released.

SuiGenerisJohn 1w ago 💬 4

There’s good insurance for that.

SuiGenerisJohn 1w ago 💬 6

I feel you on both accounts, but what about the big swinging dick VC guys and OG bitcoiners that love to be out there starting billion dollar fiat companies with their OG coins, where the fuck were they? I think something else is going on here that incentivized against donating or otherwise supporting the litigation.

simply, the whole “space” is FOS.

Just realized this means full of shit and I agree about 80%. I have met some really incredible and genuine people really trying to make the world a better place though. But yes.

ive been wrestling with this idea. wrestling because i want to make sure im not just being cynical, or unnecessarily adopting a negative outlook.

but its starting to look like 80% of people, in 80% of situations, trend toward being do nothing mouth holes

Basically everything is a Pareto Distribution.

Basically everything is a Pareto Distribution.