With all the recent core 30 debate.
Which node software do you run?
I can say i at least tried both.
But whats the talk all about?
When jepg's are already in the timechain!
If you wanna filter stuff, go for it.
How can paying a jepg with tens of million sats,
be spam?
Just asking....
What are your thoughts?
some people just love making the rules and controlling the narrative! we should be concerned whether we can still use Bitcoin as money peer to peer not engaging in such discussion!
Asking for a friend..
nostr:npub1cj8znuztfqkvq89pl8hceph0svvvqk0qay6nydgk9uyq7fhpfsgsqwrz4u nostr:npub1heqkxm37d5h7n8sx2gqdez5sxnu39qrylhxnnd66dxpu4e2ufyysdkkx28 nostr:npub1hzz35pkl67w53lpj2g62zh56g63j5zvz4q3m2nxlsfg5hxcjpwssaynqel nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg nostr:npub1s05p3ha7en49dv8429tkk07nnfa9pcwczkf5x5qrdraqshxdje9sq6eyhe nostr:npub1dg6es53r3hys9tk3n7aldgz4lx4ly8qu4zg468zwyl6smuhjjrvsnhsguz
They pay for the extra data they wanna put on the blockchain. If we believe that Bitcoin is NGU technology, everybody paying a premium should better have an economic rationale for doing so, otherwise they’d be at a loss (and I don’t give a fuck).
Transaction fees are the ultimate spam filter.
Jpegs are not possible in Bitcoin, only the data is in the time chain, not jpegs, you need 3rd party sites to show jpegs, im on the side of limiting data size and also using a hash instead of the full data is the efficient way for the spammers and node runners
you are right, it just the data and you need to do steps to see a pic.
do i run into trouble with my lightning node? when i only store the hashes instead of the full data?
I will admit I am no expert but trying to fight spam is better then letting it be a free for all to me, I was talking about onchain, I never considered lightning for this
how can paying tens of millions of sats for data storage be spam? for a max 4MB "file"
the chain is spammed right now as we speak
but i get that you would like to prevent it.
the limit was there since 2013
and it solved basicly nothing!
so why hold back all the new and cool features
to become global money ?
they are increasing the non money use case and would ultimately force a raise in the block size and diminish the pool of users who can run nodes. it can't be global money if half the blocks are filled with spam.
the chain is spammed primarily because of segwit, and people could incentivize upgrading to taproot, which is both smaller and cost is not a lot greater. smart contracts should stay off chain, and have a benefit in that they can be done on private consortium networks to enable user privacy (this is not possible with public SC blockchain systems).
segwit is the bigger problem. OP_RETURN is going to then become more important if you nudge people onto taproot, so continuing to filter them is important.
the fees would go up
core was always against a block size increase
i dont know if that logic is true, that the next step would be an blocksize increase. we got that war before.
We don't need to features to be global money, the base layer is solid and layer 2s will handle payments, the filters did prevent a lot of arbitrary data, most didn't get through, shitcoiners spend millions of dollars on bullshit that trends to zero all the time and it doesn't legitimize it, just like how bots pay for twitter blue checks, people are strange
If I take a shit on your lawn, wipe my ass with a dollar bill, and leave you the mess to clean up, is that littering?
NO, absolutely not!
But its a different topic! isnt it?
I like bitcoin as peer to peer cash kinda thing…
we all do...
Some people think it’s a database, that happens to store financial information.
In my goose opinion money>database
but did the 12 years limit prevent something?
I don’t think I understand the 12 year limit.
Personally I don’t mind hosting information related to some else’s transactions. I’ve forecasted and I run the hardware to host the whole chain for a few years. Including spam, and most people that care about Bitcoin and run a node can definitively do the same.
My point is related to the purity of Bitcoin as money, probably unachievable.
But it’s frustrating when transactions fees spike and most of the blocks data is not financial records.
IDK 🪿
thats all valid.
but i never saw a solution to the core 30 update.
its coming anyway or is there a chance core just folds it?
i dont see how this is still possible
You can run core and not upgrade. I won’t.
thats also an option
but i would like to know how this then effects my lightning node
Just bc you pay doesn't mean it's not spam, fees are rate limiting, spam is something that is not desirable, in this case Jpegs are not desirable in the blockchain, bitcoin should be optimized and aligned for tx.
but i could write a script with transactions between 2 addresses sending funds back an forth every block.
wouldnt that be also spam?
those are transactions and are desirable in the system, it's its purpose. What you are refering to is DoS, and Dos is not a problem on bitcoin bc of fees that rate limit and impose an economic cost. Spam as in junk that is not supposed to be in the network is undesirable and should not be incentivized.
but it is done right now!
what do you run?
what is your setup to navigate this time?
it's not done, not in the same way, right now to put a full jpeg on a block they go directly to miners like Mara, that is more centralized for jpegers wich means if Mara wants they can stop the service, require more money, or stop accepting it. Another important aspect is that miners can be pressured to stop that either by the community and node runners, or by legal agencies. Core by removing the option to filter just gave a free pass to Jpegs and it's saying we, nodes, network accept this, and so miners can go, and well we are just running Core.
running knots is no big deal for me, everybody should try it out.
but i also run a lightning node and i dont know if knots filters could break something with my lightning node in the future.
if you are just a bitcoin knots runner just go for it. no problem.
but i also have to consider the funds in my lightning node.
i dont know what would help in your view to prevent the core 30 update.
Coolest part about soft forks is… you don’t have to run the latest version.
I don't know enough about it, but I'm guessing knots does not break lightning because its just Core with some filter options. But if I were you the most conservative would be to just keep your current Core version, not update and just wait to see how all plays out.
yeah that is also an option i will consider
Knots. All day every day.
Q: Why don't poor people use stocks, bonds, hedge funds, options, derivatives, real estate etcetera to increase their wealth?
A: Because it's a Big Players Club and we're not invited. If you want transacting on bitcoin to be unaffordable for the entire middle class as well as the poorest, then vote for v30 chain spam and watch as deeper pockets than ours pay freshly printed money to clog my node with every dumb thing they can think of.
If you don't think keeping the purest money ever made as affordable and therefore as accessible to as many people as possible for as long as possible is more important than adding bells and whistles with unknowable long term side effects, then you underestimate the damage caused globally by the toxic debt monies sold to the world by the BIS via the IMF, World Bank and their syndicate of slave central banks.
Knots
1. having an option in bitcoin nodes is a good thing ... so I would choose Knots until it is 51% for this reason alone.
2. any filtering of non-monetary transactions from the time-chain, is a good thing... even if not very effective (maybe just virtue signaling, but I'm good with that)
3. we need to ensure that low-end hardware can always be used to run a node... or eventually Google, Amazon, and Microsoft will be the only node-runners...
all valid points and i would say the same.
maybe i will run knots or dont update core.
but it doesnt really effect what miner write in the timechain.
thats my only concern that it doesnt help much.
yeah ... unless you can change the node the miner is using, it is not going to change the blocks they construct.
this is 'a principled stance' ... or 'sending a message' ... today.
Hopefully the nebulous 'they' get the message that at some point I (and hopefully a large percentage of the node runners) would fork... but until they try to cross that line, we are just pretending to play chicken.
After disabling the filters, the scum and fools will be able to post any files with illegal content. What will you do when they start posting child pornography on the blockchain? How will you feel when your node becomes an art gallery of child pornography and similar crap? What will you tell the police and the judge when you are tried for storing and distributing child pornography as part of an international criminal organization of bitcoin core node owners. How will you explain this to your community, where you live, work and relax? There are situations when we must act tough. Without any compromise. For example, when pedophiles can use my property for their vile purposes, I must not give them a chance. Not even the slightest chance. Let others think of me as a formalist and an alarmist. I must fulfill my human duty to my conscience, to my family and to my community.
yeah when there is an option to filter obvious evil stuff i will do it with knots or i dont update core.
i am just saying that it doesnt prevent most of the stuff comming into the timechain.
but if it helps, good
Knots.
Its about the blockchain growing in disk space way to fast. https://njump.me/nevent1qqsrjrvzj8plzyzm675z0tsfyfzqlpjqv4wvgsjr2zshvz0eh8pv6kcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsvfzn0kzdqx4vtrm84q80zecy6ey6mc07z6ul0tdvkxln4hnwly4grqsqqqqqpevc0eq
Yes exactly, prunning ordinals is the best solution. But this should be default for all bitcoin fullnodes.
