maybe mandibles then fractional reserve bitcoin standard
life is uncertain
Discussion
Still no damn clue what a mandible is, and honesy dont care. And I am shocked that people cannot understand what a #btc standard would actually entail, ie no self custody, no home mining, and since Blackrock is msjority share holder in a few of the largest mining companies, the self custody txs can and will be rejected. The knots / core war is integral. And the ghouls have both sides under the boot.
Why do you think a bitcoin standard entails no self custody? Thatâs an extreme take Iâve never heard before
Why wouldnt it? They love btc. They hate not controlling it. Ask #freesamaurai.
First they came for the mixers.
Next they came for the hodlers
Then they came for the miners.
The reason you never heard this opinion is because nobody wants to admit s single issue with btc. I am not wedded. I dont care which way it goes. I call em like I see em.
But it's decentralized. They can't control it. They would have to control majority of the miners, which is possible, but then bitcoiners would have to turn to the black market. They'd pay higher fees to incentivize "illegal" mining. Eventually those transactions will get mined. The process will affect the price temporarily but their attempts would eventually fail. They can try to come for the hodlers but then many would just leave the US. Mining would also leave the US. All these things would be better for Bitcoin in the long term anyway. A lot of countries are sick of America and its bullshit reserve currency policies. So theyâd welcome refugee bitcoin miners like the US did with the Chinese miners.
Sure they can. Blackrock is majority shareholder in at least 5 of the largest mining ops. Core devs took money from Epstein. WEF and Lightning Labs are 'proud partners'. Control the miners, control th chain. And when they make self custody a felony under the now precedent 'unlicensed money transmitter' bs after the #freesamaurai kangaroo court, sky's the limit.
So what if they are?Blackrock doesnât tell what updates I run on my node.
My understanding is that Epstein donated money to MIT which then donated to Bitcoin core and other shitcoins. Nazis have contributed to advancements in engineering but why does that matter?
Controlling the miners doesnât mean you can control bitcoin. We learned this with the blocksize wars.
And if they make self custody a felony, then the right thing to do is disobey. This shit isnât gonna be easy and people have to take a stand at some point. But the only thing that matters imo is that they canât destroy Bitcoin. If they canât, then itâll bounce back eventually. There might be a lot of pain and chaos short term but eventually itâll win out.
Your node dont mean shit when they dictate the txs miners validate. Seriously dude, you smarter than this. You get a lot of the bushit. Why you think governments, banks, etc, embrace it? Cuz they figured out how to use it to their advantage. All started with psper btc (etf). Not saying dont use it. But its not fixing a fucking thing. The devs sold out. The miners sold out. LN sold out.
Lemme guess, xmr?
If you want. I promote nothing.
Didn't read everything, but seemed a good guess. Just felt like you were heading that way for reading the broad strokes. Didn't see any solutions proposed, but maybe I missed it
Nobody can ID the problen. They can never offrr a solution
Weren't you just identifying problems above? I saw etfs and centralized mining pointed out as problems. Now you go fortune cookie wisdom. Imma head out
I was saying nobody in the btc space can or will and I am routinely mocked for raising any of these issues. As if psychopathic billionaires who want us dead dont have plans with it.
Not mocking you. Just saw what seemed some very big and certain claims, which I question, at least the certainty or degree, and smelled an xmr boilerplate response on the way.
We all think/worry about these things, and that's good
Wasnt saying you were. And I doubt 'we all' think about these things because as I said, I am routinely mocked every time I bring up any potential issue with btc. For example, I brought up the Blackrock / miner thing back when the article was first published. Was told it doesnt matter and that I am clueless. A few months later, Marty and Odell brought it up in one of their episodes. Suddenly it was ok to be concerned. Another, with the ordinal / spam attack a couple years ago. I raised concern about it being an actual coordinated attack. Again, I was mocked elentlessly. Then a few weeks in, Marty and Odell raised the issue. And again, that made it ok to be concerned about. What it comes down to is nobody cares about these things until some 'influencer' makes it ok to talk about. I hope Im very wrong, but I call em like I see em. If Samaurai's Whirpool is an 'unlicensed money transmitter' when they never had custody of any funds, then a non-custodial wallet certainly can be deemed as such, since the wallet holder does take custody and transmits money. And if 51% of miners globally are controlled by nefarious groups / people, they control it all and can reject anything that doesnt come from a centralized platform. And that is why the Blackrock thing is a really big deal. And the article is old, who knows if they have more stake in more mining ops, and if other groups with same goals are doing same. Its better to be prepared for this and it never happen than to ignore it then act surprised when it does.
Youâre raising red flags and these are fair. But you still have to connect the dots. How do we get from Bitcoin to fedcoin? Having all the money in the world doesnât mean you can do whatever you want. Economic laws still apply. WEF has been trying to get people to eat bugs for a long time and itâs not working. Feds tried to force vaccine passports on everyone but it didnât happen. These people are human like us. Donât deify them.
Glad for people who don't strictly follow trends and think for themselves. Working on doing that more myself, and next step would be to actually contribute more than just lip service (may never happen from me though). Merry Xmas
I feel I would be doing people a disservice if I just kept quiet with what I know will be ignored by most. And Merry Christmas to you as well đ«ĄđŽââ ïž
So what if they have plans for it? Iâm not updating my node based on what they plan for it
Well that's not the issue. Doesnt matter what version you have if they have control of enough miners and start rejecting txs from 'unapproved' wallets.
Okay so letâs play out the game theory. They actively harm their own business revenues in order to censor all non kyc bitcoin transactions. What do you think people with non kyc sats and people that value privacy will do in response?
Threatening people and their families has a funny way of getting people to do what you want. These fuckers play for keeps. They aint embracing btc because they want us having money outside their control.
If you know of a way that âtheyâ can sustain a 51% attack indefinitely, Iâd like to know.
My node is what validates transactions not miners.
Governments and banks did not embrace it until fairly recently. Why the change? One perspective is they figured out how to take advantage of it. Another perspective is that they realized itâs not going away and they are incentivized to make money off it. People are driven more by incentives than anything else.
Half of this was stated by Keone (samaurai). Dont beleive me? Cool. But listen to the guy whose life was ruined over these isssues
Link?
Im offended you doubt me, but I appreciate it at the same time.
FYI, the jeffery / core link is very old news.
https://www.weforum.org/organizations/lightning-labs/
https://finbold.com/blackrock-is-a-major-shareholder-in-4-of-the-5-largest-bitcoin-miners/
https://phemex.com/news/article/epsteins-emails-uncover-links-to-bitcoins-early-development-46788
I think itâs helpful to start with some skepticism about all claims. You should be skeptical of some of my claims as well.
They are real and can be verified. Why is btc the only thing noone cares about shit? Trump in a picture 30/urs ago and he is raping bitches. I link every thing I said, and who ficking cares?
I give up. Borg reins supreme
I wasnât talking about the articles being fake lol I was responding to what you said about me not trusting you
We should both verify each otherâs claims as a general practice. Weâre susceptible to being wrong and skepticism allows us to uncover when we have been wrong sooner. So skepticism is something that eventually can lead to improvement in our lives.
Im not saying dump your coin. But dont be surprised when my suspicions become reality.
TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast: #692: Free Samourai with Keonne Rodriguez
Iâll listen to this soon
If they can take control of 51% of miners, no node matters. Do you really think a gang of psychopathic billionaires arent capable of this? They love btc. That is undeniable. Core devs arent in prison. Those who made privacy easy are. And Epstein funded early Core development. You think that doesnt come with strings attached? Thats how the got Dorsey. He took spook money to get Twitter going. Then he was ordered to start banning people.
Funny how anyone and anything linked to WEF, Blackrock, or Epstein are a problem, except btc.
How do nodes not matter?
These arenât arguments. Youâre just pointing out associations and random facts.
They only started to âloveâ btc now. They hated it before. And they didnât all feel the same way. If psychopathic billionaires can do whatever they want, why didnât they kill it from the start? Why would they give anyone a tool to escape from financial slavery? Your comments also imply that billionaires have ultimate knowledge or power but theyâve lost tons of money investing in shitcoins. Theyâre not all knowing.
Dorsey was compelled to take orders because he was dependent on investors and public sentiment. Thatâs why he left Twitter and funded nostr. Is nostr bad too? Node runners donât give a fuck about public sentiment. We care about our money.
Bitcoin is open source software. Itâs amoral. If an evil rich person donates money to it so that they can pump their own bags, that doesnât make Bitcoin corrupt or evil or captured. Billionaires have donated to the development of the internet, doesnât mean the internet is bad. Evil billionaires have invested money in weapons. Doesnât mean weapons are bad.
Economic nodes matter. Miners matter.
consensus among those groups is important, it's much less important we decide amongst ourselves.
because miners aren't going to continue mining on an economically irrelevant chain.
if miners and economic nodes follow a fork, idealistic individual plebnodes are irrelevant.
ie if saylor wants quantum resistant signatures and can convince the supermajority of economic nodes to enforce a fork that lock coins that dont move to the new addresses, that's where the hash goes and the "free" chain dies.
point being, the control of actual goods and resources still matter. Therefore fiat billionaires still matter. they can still exert pressure on Bitcoin in real way.
freedom money is not inevitable.
Once a fed always a fed. A person who has been co-opted doesnt just get his life back. Look, I hope I am wrong, but dont say you werent warned when it turns out I am right.
Iâm not the type to blame others for failing to see what I also failed to see. But I will disregard someone for claiming that something will go wrong without giving a rational explanation of how that thing will go wrong. I canât make permanent life changing financial decisions that will impact my family forever based on feelings that evil rich people are somehow loosely associated with bitcoin. And then somehow make a leaping conclusion that this association will lead to something bad. Yes itâs a red flag. We shouldnât ignore it. But ultimately, itâs still decentralized and the power is still in the hands of the users. Unless that changes, this all sounds like fud. Itâs not very different from saying gold is bad because evil rich people control gold ETFs.
I been explaining it. And I am not saying dump your coin. Just dont act surprised if / when any of this happens. If Whirlpool is deemed an unlicensed money transmitter even though they never took custody, a non-custodial wallet can be deemed same since one does take custody and transmits money.
I think a lot of the uncanny gap that needs to be crossed is the simple recognition that regulatory capture is a thing.
Bitcoin is well positioned to avoid regulatory capture, IF people use it in a self sovereign way. if they don't, then it doesn't matter that it's a decentralized permissionless network.
TCP/IP is the classic example. sure it's a decentralized permissionless protocol. Right now you're interacting with it through a centralized gatekeeper (your ISP). nostr is great exactly because it removes one 3rd party from the situation.
if you're not a primal user, then you only have to trust your ISP to use nostr.
same with BTC, in theory.
*in practice , Bitcoin is centralizing around platforms that enable mass adoption. and people have been cheering it for many years.
this will enable centralized control JUST LIKE what happened with social media platforms built on top of a decentralized protocol.
wrong metaphor but I hope it's clear what I mean anywayđ€Ł
Actually, I think that is a great metaphor.
it gets the point across.
people here are clear as to WHY Twitter failed
and therefore WHY nostr is necessary.
its maps pretty well onto Bitcoin also
if most usage centralizes around platforms that provide easy onboarding and a nice UI
but at the expense of sovereignty,
it easy to understand how it fails.
getting into murky, unresolvable conversation about geographic arbitrage and trying to game out a Blackrock hardfork is fun,
but not particularly productive.
I wasnt necessarily considering a fork, but cant rule that out either. Isnt Saylor promoting that nonsense recently? That could certainly disrupt shit and drop the valuation. Then de-list real btc from exchanges, which would drive most away from it.
Then monero people would like it lmao
you mean
"the imaginary monero people i argue with in my head would like it"
Wow, thats just fucking lame bro.
How is that lame? Every monero person Iâve talked to gloats about how good it is that monero is off exchanges and basically banned. No exchanges, no KYC right?
And btc can be obtained the same way, but many want nothing to do with btc since it lacks privacy.
whats lame is thinking monero bros would cheer a contentious fork and lots of Bitcoin infighting.
if it's just some delistings, sure. we'd have no problem with that.
The infighting another issue that is sickening, as well as all the hate directed at monero and those who use it. But, divide and conquer has always been a successful strategy.
obviously if you criticize Bitcoin and DON'T think its success is inevitable, you MUST think it will fail and are an adversary to Bitcoin đ
đ€Ł
Yea, heaven forbid I have concerns and want to get people to even remotely consider the possiblites. Im a fucking monster.
and according to homeboy
I'm a clown because I criticize Bitcoin and also stack it
not the champion of intellectual nuanced argument... đ€·
If any of you have real evidence or a logical theory about it failing I'd love to hear it. But so far all I've read is bad people want to ruin bitcoin so bitcoin is bad.
Jesus fucking christ. I never said a damn thing about failing or that its bad. And more than once said I hope I am wrong. Heaven forbid I see possible problems in the future. This is going nowhere. You are just making shit up and claiming I said it.
And thatâs a good enough reason for you to be off bitcoin?
see right here,
my bro fails to understand that being critical of something's flaws
doesn't mean you hate it and want it to fail.
you just have criticisms đź
Am I?
Seems like it
Why, cuz I have concerns? See this is what I mean. You are reading things into what I have been saying that I have not said, nor implied. Seeing problems that may arise in the future doesnt negate its usefulness in the present.
No one knows the future. You can speculate a million different terrible things happening. But if you canât explain a rational reason why those bad things will play out the way you anticipate, then itâs just a doomer trap. We already have enough things to be depressed about. If you canât offer a rational game theory of how this all plays out, then this is just a negative spiral of doom. And Iâve experienced those and am not interested in going back. People like this were so certain that masks, lockdowns, and vaccine passports were going to be the new norm. I was convinced of that too. That didnât end up happening. So I suffered and tortured myself in my own mind because i overestimated the power of elites and underestimated the impact that the disobedient minority had in this world. People have been calling for the demise of Bitcoin for years. Why is it still around? Every controversial thing is the end of Bitcoin. Every damn time. And itâs still around. Blocks are still being mined. Payjoin still exists. Lightning still exists. Non kyc sats are still around. Ashigaru is being built out the last time I checked and that project could be infinitely better than samourai. Bitcoin may literally be in a better place overall a year from now.
Samourai should not be in jail but they also shouldâve decentralized their business better. They got greedy and attracted too much attention to themselves with their marketing. They flew too close to the sun. Ross did the same thing. He admitted that he went about it wrong and was trying to make things happen faster. Itâs going to take time.
Itâs great to be cautious and prepare for horrible things. But if everything is viewed as an inevitable failure just because elite evil billionaires exist, then whatâs the point of living? This isnât an asshole take? Whatâs the point of life if we are headed for inevitable demise with no hope for anything to change or improve? Your worldview is too narrow. Let the US ban Bitcoin who gives a fuck. Move somewhere else. The US will crumble under its own bullshit anyway. As if these mining businesses can afford to be that reckless. Theyâve literally destroyed their own currency. So what are they going to do? Destroy their own mining businesses and subsidize it with more money printing? How long will that last? People are already on the edge financially. A 51% attack is not sustainable. And people that are desperate for money, and there will be a lot more in the coming year, will break the law to mine those censored transactions. Your views lack nuance.
Again, who the fuck said anything about failure. Stop putting fucking words in my mouth
This is failure
nostr:note16cy7ny7gsecshrhh6gk407xrtztkrcqau7rzsxpvchnkwuqn3zfqr6wd03
You use the word but clearly dont know what it means, or what I have been saying since you have continually made shit up in your head and applied it to my words. Seriously dude, fuck off đ
Why are you so angry? Are you incapable of having a civil discussion? I did not disrespect you once.
No self custody means Bitcoin failed. Thatâs not a stretch. The point of Bitcoin is to hold money that the state doesnât control.
So the implication of your statement is that Bitcoin will fail. Yes those are your words. I did not put them in your mouth. Unless you think that Bitcoin can succeed without self custody, then I would be wrong for putting words in your mouth. Although I have a hard time believing you actually think that. No self custody in Bitcoin means it failed.
I spent hours trying to understand your thought process and all youâve suggested is that Bitcoin is guilty by association which is a logical fallacy. The NSA played a major role in the development of modern cryptography but that doesnât mean you shouldnât use it or that itâs bad. Theyâre tools that can be used. Theyâre amoral.
And now youâre telling me to fuck off after I wasted all this time trying to understand the risks youâre anticipating?
Mainly because you keep putting words in my fucking mouth. Which means you did not actually read anything I wrote, but kept arguing based on what you made up in your head. Never said anything about failure, yet you claimed I said it twice. You claimed I have said 'bitcoin bad' which never was said nor implied. And obviously just outright ignored the multiple times I said I hope I am wrong. And then there is the black pilled bs.
And you just here once again restate the lie that I am saying btc will fail. Those are your words, not mine.
The only thing we have to do is die. Itâs no different with btc. The only questions left are the how and the when, thatâs all. Thatâs the note.
Can we drop this. Your a good dude, I dont wanna argue with you about this. I said what I needed to. You disagree and that is more than fine. đ«Ąđ„
It's fine to disagree I just don't get the hostility
Its the you accusing me of things I never once said, nor implied. As I said many times now. But fuck all that, Merry Christmas bro. đ«ĄđŽââ ïžđ„
Merry Christmas đđ«Ą
If the success of something is dependent on the actions of normies, then it will never succeed. And that also goes for monero. Sorry but no adoption means unstable price and that fucks its medium of exchange prospects. And if mass adoption does happen, monero canât scale. So itâll have to do some type of fork or something. At that point, why wouldnât evil billionaires start donating tons of money to monero developers? If Blackrock invested in monero, would you start waving the white flag for monero too? Anything that is likely to succeed will bring in the likes of Blackrock. Itâs inevitable.
this is what happens when you don't actually follow the conversation,
but start arguing with the imaginary people instead.
also minus 10000 points for "if it depends on normies it will never succeed. also, we have to have mass adoption."
you're high and noting.
Yea a btc standard automatically implies normies. It cant work any other way, otherwise, its not a standard
Okay and?
Iâm pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments. Your fear of Bitcoin failure is rooted in the actions of evil billionaires. Any other solution will also attract evil billionaires to try and influence it. So why not just give up on everything? Youâre not offering any real solutions and wonât explain how a 51% mining attack can actually be sustained long term. Bitcoin is guilty by association in your eyes. A loose association.
Who said anything about btc failing? Or giving up on anything? I just raised some issues I find truly concerning and its not my job to tell someone what their solution is. That up to the each person to figure out themselves. As for a 51%, if these fucking control freaks control 51% of them, well thats the sustained attack. I starting to think you have not even read anything I wrote. You are claiming I am saying things I never have said, nor implied. But I guess Im black pilled ( THE most normie thing anyone could ever say btw).
Well I've read theories on what a 51% attack will look like many years ago. I felt good about the outcomes eventually when I tried to play out the game theory. I'm trying to understand how you think it will play out but it doesn't seem like you have played theory out to its logical conclusion. A 51% attack will most likely lead to a growing number of unmined transactions in the mempool with inflated transaction fees. It's basically free money sitting there for miners to take. This incentivizes miners to break the law. It also incentivizes miners to leave the US and incentivizes new miners to pop up in other countries.
Well, you just described exactly what I am getting at as a possibility. And no, they wont break the law as the entire op is under the boot. Some will leave, and will just be replaced with ones who will play along. I really dont see whats so hard to understand. Majority shareholders call the shots. Thats the point of being a majority shareholder.
It seems that you already have your mind made up so thereâs no point in further debating this
Well you have two choices. Ignore the possility or prepare for it. Im not saying these things cuz I want it to happen. Im saying it cuz from where I stand the writing is on the wall and its the logical thing they would do. Nobody cared to listen in Dec 2019 when the first reports about sars in China were coming out and was telling people to not fall for the psyop. Nobody listened late 2020 when I was warning about what the mRNA injections would do. And now, next to noone cares to listen about this. I see things for what they are, not what I want them to be.
These are false equivalences.
Also theyâre not sustainable. If the solution is to argue harder and convince normies to do the right thing, we will never be free. This is why I canât get onboard with monero. Normies are retarded and donât care about this shit. On the other hand, if you count on people to follow incentives, then you have a better chance. People do what they think is in their best interest. More wealth is always a good motivating force for people. If Bitcoin experiences a government planned 51% attack, the incentive to break the law grows. Isnât that a good thing? Isnât disobeying tyrants the only way to freedom? When you frame it that way, I imagine youâd find this to be a good thing. Iâm not saying it is a good thing, but you can certainly frame it that way. There are non kyc sats in circulation. If the government tries to ban the mining of those sats, then they will incentivize new miners all over the world to mine those âillegalâ transactions. If people are willing to risk selling illegal hard drugs for money, imagine what people are willing to do with âillegalâ mining.
If I have to account for the infinite possibilities that the mind can manufacture of how something can go wrong, Iâll never be able to do anything with my life and never find any solutions to my problems. Iâd be miserable and thereâs no point in living. I prefer to make decisions based on human nature. Government never stopped everyone from breaking their laws. They didnât stop weed sales. They didnât stop alcohol during prohibition. They didnât stop people from saying no to the jab.
The black pill is a psyop meant to keep us hopeless.
Ignore it or prepare for it. I dont care.
Saylor is at the forefront of the fractional reserve paper bitcoin cartel