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Sounds much like Chomsky's idea of anarchy.

And now explain, please, how the fundamental principle of libertarianism, private property, comes along with the mental and societal brain disease of communism.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago 💬 9

You are pretty wrong as many who do not know much about communism. It doesn’t mean one cannot have private belongings, it’s about owning the means of productions, private property means that the ownership of the means of productions are of a single individual..

privatize_universe 2y ago

Problem is that human body and mind are most crucial means of production.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

That’s one of the essential parts of course. We shall not sell our working hours for a salary. First commandment!!! lol

privatize_universe 2y ago

And we shall not own means of production. So socialism is basicaly slavery.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

?? I didn’t get this one. Socialism is slavery yes.

Communism is not socialism tho

privatize_universe 2y ago

Comunism is one of form socialism.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

Communism may have took some ideas from socialism, but while both want less inequality and a fair society, communism completely gets rid of the government and moves to a perfect society without classes. Socialism has different views on how much the government should be involved in the economy and community, but doesn't always want to fully remove the government like communism does.

privatize_universe 2y ago

And? Comunism is subset of socialism. So there is other types of socialism then comunism.

What socialism want is questionable.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

I agree that what socialism wants is some sort of slavery. But it’s has nothing to share with communism.

privatize_universe 1y ago

You repeting missinformation doen't make it true.

Socialism has many form and communism is just one of them.

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

The one mislead is clearly not me. But if you like to keep on dissing me just cause I say the truth, well have fun staying nazi-capitalist

privatize_universe 1y ago

Nazi-capitalist is what? Nazism is another form of socialism. They have it in name and also in what they did.

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

I agree with that!! Lol they are socialist but at the same time pushing corporatism and militarists, which is exactly what the USA capitalist socialist are today: genocide joe represents!

How can even the Russian socialist be the same as nazi since they basically lost 20M people to fight them? I seriously don’t get it. So, what could have be another outcome? Like, Russians not killing Nazis and we all live happily with respecting them??

If Russians didn’t free auschwits how could we know that they were mass killing Jews? Do you really think Americans and English didn’t actually know what was going on?? Come on…

Anglo Saxons have clearly been supporting the Nazis. Hitler was man of the year in 39 on the times. What are we talking about come on… nazists called themselves socialist, just because they are shapechangers, that’s what a fascist is. Always be on the side of the strong ones, those with money, and lie saying they are helping the people!!

Personally I dislike socialism!

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

So tell me this:

Nazis were socialists

But they were also anti-communists!!! 😂

So, who was also anti-communist?? Guess who…

Ahah stop being so damn nazi

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

By the way, they were NATIONAL SOCIALISTS

Which is what the USA are, maybe IMPERIALIST SOCIALISTS

privatize_universe 1y ago

I prefer caling USA corporate socialism. It is not nazi, but sadly yes it has too much socialism.

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

Corporate socialism = nazism.

That’s a simple math.

Then, I understand that living in a country thinking it supports democracy, then slowly realising that in fact it is a German state, led by Germans, who simply are the continuation of the nazi makes you live in a denial. That’s totally understandable brother. But we don’t hate you guys. Ok USA is a nazi state, but we can get along with it. Just drop all you motherfucking nazi instances. Like, Zionism and so on. Then all is good. Stop being that nazi for fvck sake!! ❤️❤️❤️🎈🎊

privatize_universe 1y ago

No. Corporationalism is not inherently nationalistic. So your math is flawed, because it's not nazism.

I don't live in USA and as anarchocapitalist I'm against state in any form 🤷‍♂️ So what zionism? I'm against existance of izrael and also against palestinian state, because I'm anarchist.

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

But the USA are not nationalists sorry, they are pretty much imperialist which is being nationalist on steroid!!

Sorry!!

My math is not flawed, my logic is coherent.

I agree with you, the state is the problem. Is just that I don’t understand this anarcho-capitalism. It feels like a scam seriously. Heyek and his bourgeois friends are not exactly what I would call people who love freedom. So how can someone used to have slaves actually produce a political framework which is not similar to his enslaving mentality?

Libertarianism is pretty much about communism and anarchy. Anarchy is socialism without the state. I don’t understand how you anarcho capitalist think about how we can take care about each other if not by creating Communities => communism .

I understand that you have this profound hate for the eternal Russian and communist enemy, but it’s clearly dystopic, as communism is libertarian so as anarchism!!

privatize_universe 1y ago

No it's not. Imperialism is not nationalism. You can have inperialistic states without any nationalism.

What ensleving mentality? Only one ensleving mentality is socialism in any form. Anarchocapitalism and similar capitalism leaning anarchisms atr only viable options for humanity freedom. Any other form of anarchism is unable to exist in large scale withou destroing individualism and practicaly enslave everyone with play on freedom.

In practice every attempt to make comunism in long run end with comunism like has been in my country or worse in russia. It is because ideal comunism can't work. It's just fairy tail.

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

Sorry but that’s not possible. Imperialism is the highest form of nationalism!

What you are saying is just a bunch of nazi bs

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

I don’t want to argument on people who pretend to know the future. I totally disagree. Capitalism is the system which lead to nazism. Wow.

Libertarians are firstly communists. Then there is people with strange capitalistic idea,which is a jungle of everyone against everyone else.

I think you should respect other libertarians instead of pumping mainstream history bs upon us.

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

It’s not a fairy tail, it’s an idea which was presented to the public few centuries ago. While capitalism is the direct child of bribery perpetrated during previous centuries. And your idea of capital without the state means simply the strongest survive, which is part of the nature, but we are also capable of human feelings, one of which is compassion, which means being able to share the suffering!! So I think you are free to envision a capitalistic only society based on bitcoin, but how are you going to prevent people to unite and create communities where they freely provide people who currently have no means, with the means they need to produce their labour? I think you cannot. So, the same way as you cannot prevent this, you shall let people be free to be as communists as they wish, and stop going around repeating the history lesson written by the imperialist slaves international capitalistic modern society!! You shall realise that the “socialism” that liberals are willing to accept is that type of enslavement you are talking about and it’s the just enough to make people not revolt. Capitalist governements and Nazis share the hate for communists, and why? Because communism is an ideology without classes, without a central power and without money. Pretending that the paths people tried today are the only viable to reach a communist society, is just a closed mentality.

Try to open yourself. You aswell as all the other people on here who hate communism.

Realise that communists are libertarians, that we are both on the same side and that we are not the same as the respective counterparts of the central by governments lead societies.

We are both necessary. But we shall not discuss on such a low level. Cause you are going to tell us Stalin, and we are going to tell you Hitler and Zionism. So…

Where does this ends? Shouldn’t we be more concerned about how to dismantle the states?

Your vision is:

We can only do it with rich people who invest in others, make margins and earnings on them.

Communist way is: we can reach this enabling people with the means for production, no need to earn in every asset you own, you can organise and help people be able to be independent!

dd

bloodymary 1y ago

It’s not my fault if capitalists like fascists..

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424ad77e... 2y ago

If I work a remote job, is my laptop one of the "means of production"?

If I mow the lawn for a guy down the street and he changes the oil in my car in exchange, are my mower and his wrenches "means of production"?

Why shouldn’t they?

By private property one means that the worker, those who provide the job, shall own his means of productions, meaning the tools he uses to provide the good or service shall be in his possession as a private belonging. So whatever you may have think about communism is simply wrong

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

Ask chat gpt don’t be so capitalist

Michael Matulef 2y ago

Everything Voluntary ✌️

nostr:nevent1qqs2vccd7lmrpxccfgq4evtmpmht6fwmllrykeqhla3n54d0wefac3qpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg9euaj5dwsxg4hdxqweu54uf8ay3ec2d0ezs2l85xh899rkzgprmspsgqqqqqqsdfgh24

Lohan Snow 2y ago

Specifically, “voluntarism” as espoused for example by Auberon Herbert. Although it’s not clear how this can persist in totalitarian societies. In this context it does not appear compatible.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

like not listening to their totalitarian narratives

Lohan Snow 2y ago

Enter compulsion and actual physical force. Not everything is narrative.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

That’s what we shall realise, even though it’s seems that reality is nothing but narratives. So, probably the best way is creating an alternative narrative.. not a centralised one, a decentralised is better.

Maybe we don’t know it but we are actually doing it rn!!

@IsabelSydow Queen of Shrimps (but u can call me Dan.) 2y ago

How well put!!!! 💖

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424ad77e... 2y ago

Libertarianism sounds great until you realize that the world isn't made up exclusively of 120+ IQ males.

Guy Swann 2y ago 💬 1

Yeah. Thinking that slavery shouldn’t exist is so last century.

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424ad77e... 2y ago

It pains me to say this because you have done so much for all of us through your work, but that sounds like a bunch of blue pilled Cato BS.

Never expected that from you, but it sounds like you stopped reading at Rothbard. Try some Hoppe. Then maybe some Yarvin, Schmidt, Spangler, and Evola.

Libertarianism is a philosophy by and for the nobility. 30+% of the human population can't even understand hypothetical analogies, let alone something as complex as the NAP. What are we to do with them when they show up with pitchforks?

Sick our private defense contractors on them?

privatize_universe 2y ago

Libertarianism sounds better then everithink else especialy when we realize that the world isn't made up exclusively of 120+ IQ males.

42

424ad77e... 2y ago

And what's to be done when 30+% of the populace refuses to abide by the NAP?

( -_-) 2y ago

They can't hit you through the internet

privatize_universe 2y ago

What to be done in any system when 30+% of refuse to abide by any laws? Even current state can't survive it and it end with civill war.

Libertarianism has multiple posible implementation with for example minarchy and ancap. I don't know which one you have on mind…

VelvetBlue_art 2y ago

Libertarianism is great for "wannabe Oligarchs" too.

dd

bloodymary 2y ago

My man!!

Pirate HODL 2y ago

Which means it's completely incompatible with those systems.

frozear 2y ago

Political nouns are not precise and the meanings vary. Want proof? Do an image search of "political compass" and observe the difference from one diagram to the next.

The libertarian left brings words like "Communalism", " Libertarian Municipalism" and "Anarchism" to my mind.

I personally see Communism and Fascism as unequivocally authoritarian, not libertarian.

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Spaceman 2y ago

Interesting thing about libertarian thought, it in no way can cognitively justify the initial acquisition of private property. At all.

Guy Swann 2y ago

It can very easily actually. That which is obtained without violence against another person. Are you saying that if you gather food or kill a deer to eat it, that you cannot come up with any means to defend that fact that it is your meal, and that someone who steals it from you isn’t in the wrong?

I bet you a million dollars that if you are starving, you will discover private property extremely quickly. It is the comfort of the market that makes intellectual blowhards pontificate that this is some grey area because they want to be able to endive the whole world to their superior vision of society.

aa

Exodia38 2y ago

Respect of private property and division of labor promotes comparative advantage.

Even ir you are the janitor of the famous musician, you will acquire wealth

Guy Swann 2y ago

It’s literally the most fundamental precursor to society itself. No value actual or cooperation exists without it. It’s axiomatically required to have a conversation about sharing or trade in the first place.

The idiocy of arguing against property rights is literally arguing that society isn’t a thing and that to have a society or not have one makes no difference.

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Spaceman 2y ago

And how does private property come into existence? Without invading armies to steal it, corrupt governments to sell it to rich foreigners(used to be families, now corporations), and a police state to maintain it. It has never not been the case. Ever.

rabble 2y ago 💬 2

Yep. I’m a libertarian socialist. It’s a long tradition and it informs my work and activism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

rabble 2y ago

I came to my politics and continue to evolve what i believe without focus on the labels. Having come to the conclusion that libertarian socialism was consistent with my beliefs, i use the term to describe my views.

Dawlat Moustafa 2y ago

Generally speaking, it’s not a bad political current and it saves time to help understand the political orientation to mention it.

Personally, I prefer discussing my views than relaying on someone’s else’s although similarities may occur and I enjoy never belonging to a political current or group.

pjv 2y ago

That's an interesting political philosophy.

On that Wikipedia page it says that it differs from other forms of libertarianism by its rejection of private property.

Do you reject the notion of private property? And if so, does that mean all so-called property or only certain classes of property? IOW if we ran into each other at a coffee shop and I chose to walk off with (what I would call) "your" laptop, would that be congruent with your philosophy?

rabble 2y ago

I think there should be other rights around possession and stewardship instead of property. It’s similar to moral rights of the author vs copyright.

pjv 2y ago

So then you still want your laptop to be your laptop but you prefer a different framework of defining what that means in principle and in practice than the conventional, mostly western developed-world legal frameworks that currently dominate. Is that accurate?

Although I don't really like this term very much (because I think jargon in general seems to obscure what it's trying to disclose), I find myself mostly agreeing with what libertarians call "natural law" most of the time that they use it, and I feel like property - possessions - mostly have a pretty obvious "natural law" set of rights and wrongs around them that my dogs seem to understand perfectly well without any codification.

When there is contention between my dogs over some property, most often the assertion of natural law will carry and often the less dominant dog will prevail when she has natural law on her side. But there are also occasions when the provenance of some goody is not clear and in that case, might makes right in the dog world and the spoils then invariably go to the stronger, more dominant dog.

For all its warts, the capitalist codification of law surrounding property mostly aligns pretty well with my notion of natural law around property and mostly (*mostly*) protects humans from might makes right losses. Under your interpretation of libertarian socialism, how would property contentions be managed?

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Spaceman 2y ago

All libertarian thought can be broken down into two statements, "I got mine, Jack." and "Get off my property!" It really makes sense, how many Incel consider themselves libertarians.

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